Socal Says, "hello!"

[aquated]

After about 15 years without a tank (My reef tank was under assault by my then 3 year old son who liked watching things drift to the bottom of the tank.  The breaking point was the day I found a couple of pennies near my anemone), I'm back in the game.
 
My youngest (not the one who attempted mass invert murder) took up the hobby and "graduated" from a 10 gallon setup to a 40.  He gave me his old 10 gallon setup.  After looking at it for the better part of a year, I decided I wanted to get back into fishkeeping.
 
A lot has changed in 15 years and I'm fascinated by the developments and beauty of the planted freshwater tanks.  Been browsing the internet and I find the designs of Takashi Amano awe inspiring.
 
I'd kind of started before I found a lot of this stuff so I'm in process of rethinking my original layout.
 
The 10 gallon Plexiglas aquarium has a reef photo background and three "sunken pot" decorations complete with some plastic plants and fake marine inverts molded into them.  
 
Filtration is a Marineland Penguin 100.  There's also an airstone.  Water movement is excellent.  A Fluval 100w heater and a hood with a daylight fluorescent bulb completes the hardware.
 
Did a little reading and my original stocking plan was:
 
Animals:
 
3 Orange Platies - colorful livebearers
3 Corydora Hastatus - small playful cleanup crew
8-20 Cherry Shrimps - exotic colorful cleanup crew
1 or 2 Nerite Snails - algae exterminator
1 Blue Dwarf Gourami - contrasting/balancing size and color to platies 
1 TBD Algae Eating Fish - more algae removal
 
Plants:
 
Anachris - background
Dwarf Hairgrass - foreground/carpet
Moss Ball - foreground shrimp motel
Anuba Nana - focal on driftwood
 
Picked up three Mickey Mouse Platies from my LFS (good livestock but a bit pricey) which were supposed to be two females and one male.  Decided it would be good to add some live plants so I also bought a bunch of anachris and a moss ball.  Once everyone calmed down in the tank and I could get a good look at them, I realized I had three females.  One goes back to LFS to get exchanged for a male which I carefully inspected before leaving the shop.
 
Now I start seriously reading about the platies and discover they are omnivorous and will eat algae.  Not only will they but it's important to their diet and health.  In fact, I notice they seem to have cleaned up the small amount of algae that was on the anachris.  My "cleanup crew" has become much less important if the platies will do some algae grazing.
 
More reading and I start getting excited about the idea of livebearers as well as the prolific reproduction of the shrimp.  How cool would it be to watch my tank "self stock"?  And I love the idea of being able to share plants and animals with friends, perhaps even get a tiny bit of credit at LFS for my surplus stock.
 
My next step is to establish the dwarf hairgrass to provide cover for the platy fry.  Off to Petco for guaranteed snail and pest free prepackaged plants from Top Fin because the anachris from LFS had at least one hitchhiking snail (quickly converted to fishfood).  No signs of additional snail activity which makes me happy.  I've dealt with snail infestations before and no fun.  I really want the Cherry Shrimps plus it's a tiny tank so loaches aren't really in my mix.
 
Plant the dwarf grass and I'm thinking this thing has potential.  
 
LFS has a 25% off sale so I have to buy some Cherry Shrimp since LFS sells them for $9 a pop.  Three (2 yellow, 1 red) go into the tank (I really, really hope I got a male).  Seem to have adapted well despite a bit of excessive curiosity from the platies.  The red has already molted.
 
Starting to really dig this plant thing so when I notice this very well done piece of fake driftwood and some nice looking Anuba Nana at Petco I just can't resist.
 
Oops, the hardscape (3 pots plus fake driftwood) is getting a bit too crowded.  Going to have to do some redesign but the platies really seem to like the pot that I'd like to pull plus the shrimp need the better hiding places.  Gonna take a bit to figure this one out.  In the meantime, I'm waiting for my plants to grow in a bit to provide more cover. Just going to have to accept a bit of excessive hardscape for the time being.
 
Did some more reading and discovered the whole CO2/micronutrients thing.  My son no longer is raising live plants so he sells me some of his leftover micronutrients.  I consider CO2 options and decide Flourish Excel sounds like what I need.  
 
I start checking prices and order some Flourish and a GH/KH test kit on Amazon.  Need to add a couple of more items to get up to $25 to qualify for free shipping so I add a livebearer nursery and some African driftwood (to naturally lower ph and move toward a more natural aquascape).
 
One of my platies is starting to get a "square belly" so I'm expecting the first round of fry in the next few days.  I hope some of them can hide in the grass and hardscape to survive.  If not, the next birthing will be attempted in the nursery.
 
At this point, I'm still thinking I want the gourami.  Gonna let the plants fill in more (especially the anuba on the driftwood) to give the gourami some darker spots away from the activity of the platies.
 
I'm also thinking I'm going to order some more cherry shrimp online from The Shrimp Farm if I don't see evidence of breeding out of my original three since the bioload of these dwarf shrimp is so low.
 
Once my driftwood comes in, I'll start thinking about what hardscape to remove from the tank and how to make it a more "natural tank".  Probably will be changing out the background as well but not sure what color/pattern to use.  
 
Please feel free to point out my mistakes.  I'm here to learn and share from my experiences.
 
Happy aquatics. 
 

 

[Ninjouzata]

Hello & welcome! That was a very lovely introduction.
I'm not very experienced at all, so I can't be of much use, but I did want to ask something.
 
Are you going to up the hastatus numbers? I'm not sure if this would be too much for this size tank but the general rule is 6+
I was also wondering if you'll be providing them their own food?
 
You seem very concerned with algae, AFAIK you shouldn't really get any once you get the right amount of lighting and ferts worked out?
 
Did you cycle the tank before you added your fishies? I wonder if this is a silly question since you've kept fish before but I still wanted to check
 
Plain black is a popular blackground as it makes the colors of the plants & fish "pop"
 
Do you have any pictures yet? Would be interested to see. You could/should start up a journal ^.^

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Only thing/s I would change are...
 
1) The number of Corys you want, Corys are much happier in schools of at lest 6 of their own change. If you're still thinking of getting them, please get at least three more
 
2) Don't add the Gourami yet, Gouramis do much better in established tanks, generally if the tank is at least 6 months old then it is considered established.
 
Also, it sounds like you didn't cycle your tank (correct me if I'm wrong), if you can get an ammonia and nitrite liquid test kit then we can find out what your levels are and make sure your fish remain happy and healthy without ammonia or nitrite poisoning
 
 
I'd also love to see some pics

 

[ncguppy830]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[aquated]

Thanks for the kind words. Sorry if I left out some details.  Started to feel more like I was doing a journal all in one post instead of an introduction. 

 
I did cycle the tank just by doing a start up.  The substrate, the hardscape and the filter had all been previously used (filter has a bio-wheel) so I basically added water (it's small so I filled it using a Brita pitcher to help remove chlorine, chorides and metals), threw in some water conditioner and let it run for about two weeks.  At the end of the first week, I went into my lfs to pick up a freshwater test kit (ph, NH3, NO3, NO2) but they were out of stock.  Waited another week and brought a water sample with me.  Zeros across the board for NH3, NO3, NO2.  ph was 7.6 which I'd like to pull down to maybe 7.2 to improve CO2 content hence the plan to add some driftwood.
 
I ask the LFS employee about my stocking list.  He tells me to buy'em all right now and load the tank.  I'm too old school for that and didn't do a true ammonia adding start up so I figured the hardiest of the fish (platies) and some plants (they had some anachris and a moss ball) should be enough for the first stocking.  I'm more comfortable introducing one species at a time once the first inhabitants have settled in so long at the longer term residents aren't too territorial.
 
After adding the platies, I intentionally over fed a bit to push up the bioload in preparation for adding more animals as well as getting some nitrogen flowing to the anachris and moss.  At the end of the first week (I'll be testing again tomorrow) NH3 0.25, NO3/NO2 0, ph steady 7.6.  I backed off on the feeding this week.  Currently feeding plant based flake twice a day and frozen bloodworm once.  Fish clean the tank in less than 30 seconds but some bits do get down to the substrate so I'm confident the shrimp are getting their share.
 
After reading more about proper plant care, watching the platies forage for algae and thinking I'd like to have a dozen or more Cherry Shrimp wandering around eventually, I'm pretty much planning on limiting the "cleanup crew" to the Cherry Shrimp so Corys have been eliminated from the stocking list at this point.
 
My new fishkeeping mantra is "less is more" regarding number of species in the tank.  More likely to add diversity with levels via hardscape and plants than my old habit of crowding the tank with one of every animal in the store that looks interesting.
 
If the plants grow well and the platies and shrimp reproduce, I will probably start a second similar tank at home.  That would definitely be a larger tank.  In a larger tank, I'd be much more likely to add some Corys knowing they'll be happier with lots of playmates (6+).  Good advice. 
 
I'll definitely consider black as a background.  The tank is in my office at school (I'm a high school teacher) and I've got a bunch of different colors of construction paper laying around.  Probably just experiment a bit until I settle on something I like.  Don't worry the construction paper won't end up being permanent. 

 
I am attempting to post a picture.  This is end of Week 1.
 
Animals:
    3 Female Mickey Mouse Platies
 
Plants:
   Anachris
   Moss Ball
   Dwarf Hairgrass
 

 
Fish are showing good color, very active and voracious eaters.
 
Anachris is putting out new growth.  Moss Ball looks healthy and might be growing (I think I need to keep measurements to verify).  Dwarf Hairgrass was only planted the day before.
 
Unfortunately, I took it with my phone and it cropped the tank a bit more than I'd hoped.  There was also a lot more glare than I realized.  I'll work at it and get some better ones.
 
The gourami will be waiting for a while (not certain I can hold out 6 months).  I really want the anubas nana to get about 3" or so to provide a planted retreat.  I also want the hairgrass to have gotten thick enough to provide some cover for shrimplets and platy fry.
 
Guess I'll go start of journal.

 

[Blondielovesfish]

When you cycled the tank, did you add a source of ammonia?

 

[aquated]

When you cycled the tank, did you add a source of ammonia?

No.

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Well, unfortunately, your tank isn't cycled. You are (sadly) doing a fish in cycle now
 
If you want to have the least amount of stress on your fish, I recommend that you either get some mature media from a friend or a nice LFS, or, you get some of Dr. Tim's One and Only or Tetra's Safe Start. Either that or rehome all of the fish and do a fishless cycle (details found in my signature).
 
DO NOT add anymore fish until the fish in cycle is complete.

 

[aquated]

Well, unfortunately, your tank isn't cycled. You are (sadly) doing a fish in cycle now

 
If you want to have the least amount of stress on your fish, I recommend that you either get some mature media from a friend or a nice LFS, or, you get some of Dr. Tim's One and Only or Tetra's Safe Start. Either that or rehome all of the fish and do a fishless cycle (details found in my signature).
 
DO NOT add anymore fish until the fish in cycle is complete.

I started with mature media.  The substrate and the bio-wheel in the Penguin had been run for over a year in the tank when it held both plants and animals.
 
I had a bit of NH3 (0.25) at the end of the first week with fish in the tank but that's because I was intentionally overfeeding.  
 
I cut back on my feedings this week since I don't plan to add any more animals for a while and had straight 0's across the board (NH3, NO2, NO3) with stable ph (7.6) when I tested today.
 
My fish are active, voracious eaters and showing good color. No pumping gills. No lethargy. I've already seen evidence of moltings by 2 of 3 shrimp.  My tank is not distressed.  It's kind of gaudy, garish and overcrowded with hardscape but the water quality is solid and the animals and plants are thriving.
 
This is my 5th tank startup including a brackish (mono, arowana and scat) and a marine reef tank (corals, anemones, feather duster, clowns, cleaner shrimp).  Haven't killed a fish since I overcrowded my original 10 gallon tank 20 years ago and my betta went after a 2 year old feeder goldfish which had been the my very first fish.
 
We used Fritz-Zyme and small amounts of vegetable/algae based flake food back in the day and had stable aquariums inside of 4 weeks.  As much as I appreciate the pure ammonia cycling concept and recognize the importance of patience when starting up a new tank, I'm surprised that none of the write ups I've read include using a nitrifying bacteria supplement instead of waiting months to build up an appropriate bacteria colony. 

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Oh, whoops, sorry, I forgot you had used mature media
 
However, you shouldn't be getting 0 nitrate, most aquariums show at least 5ppm nitrate unless they're heavily planted. Are you making sure you're giving the nitrate #2 bottle a really good shake?
 
The cycling article on this forum (the one in my sig) does include about using nitrifying bacteria as a supplement, that's what Dr. Tim's One and Only and Tetra's Safe Start are. They're the best on the market (in TwoTankAmin's opinion).