Silver Sand Or Gravel?

JamieH

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I've decided to use laterite mixed with a small amount of tetra complete as my base layer in my new tank. I've read that heating cables enhance the performance of laterite... so have ordered one of those too.

My question is whether silver sand (about the texture of playpit sand) is too fine for the top layer?

Will this mean the subsrate is too dense, and the heating cable won't work?

Would normal aquarium gravel be a better choice?
 
From what I understand the heater cable creates a convection current with the temperature variance and draws warm water down into the substrate. I am not sure if sand will allow enough circulation of the current? The last time I looked into this I seem to remember that 2mm fine gravel was optimum. Larger gravel is no good as it allows too much flow apparently. However I am no expert on this. :unsure:

The more important question is do you really need the heater cable at all?? :blink:
Read this first: The need for heater cables

Hope this helps
Regards

Brian
 
from an article about heating cables - posted as a response to someone saying they were going to use laterite without a heating cable:

I'm curious as to why you would go through the expense of setting up an "almost" optimum aquarium. The laterite and the heating coils are intimate components.

Visualize if you will a biotope of your choice. In your mind take along your 100 gallon tank. Imagine that it does not have the bottom in place, just the 4 sides. press this into the SOIL of your biotope so that the you will have 3 inches from the top of the soil to the bottom of the sides.

Carefully slide in the base from a side so you include the soil. Let's just say the bottom is now fused again to the sides so we have taken a piece of nature, straight out of the biotope, including water, soil, plants, fish, etc. A perfect scenario? Nope. It does not take a expert on ecology to see that less than optimum plant and fish health will result, even in natural light.

What has happened is that the movement of water through the soil substrate has been blocked. Plant roots need oxygen to metabolize. There is a soil substrate/water/root hair interface of tremendous import that is disrupted.

The authors of "The Optimum Aquarium" tell you the coils are there to supply slow steady convective movement through the substrate. In my opinion, this is the only method on the market which provides water movement slow enough to keep the laterite in place.

The laterite in the substrate serves a critical function in a planted aquarium. The laterite has many negatively charged sites; ammonia in the form of ammonium ions is positively charged. The laterite attracts and holds the ammonium ions like a magnet until a plant root hair exchanges another positively charged ion for the ammonium (adsorption) and takes it in to metabolize into amino acids and ultimately protein. No laterite, no negative charges, no easy ammonium uptake.

You have the additional benefit of removing ammonia. Instead of just the "ammonia to nitrite to nitrate" cycle in biologic filtration, you will bypass the "nitrogen cycle" and its accumulating nitrate level. The nitrogen ends up being removed from the tank as you cut and prune excess plant tissue because plant tissue is partly made of protein, which is 14% nitrogen.


The scientists at Dupla figured out that since you have to heat the tank anyway you might as well do it by putting a coil in the substrate. The gentle currents emulate the ground water/surface water movement. It isn't just that the roots like to be warm. Some experiments on terrestrial plants show marked increase in growth if you heat the soil higher than the surrounding air

The heating coil provides just the right velocities to circulate the tank water with its ammonium throughout the substrate. Some of this is exchanged for H+ (protons) or other cations (positive ions like K+, Ca++, Mg++, Na++, Al+++).
 
As I said above Jamie I am no expert and not trying to tell you what to do, merely passing on info read elsewhere by experienced Planted aquaria keepers.
I think I understand what you are saying above? However what about ponds and lakes. There are no stream current passing through then, only standing water?
If your house is very warm (as mine is thanks to the wife constantly fiddling with the thermostat :rolleyes: ) how can the roots get cold? the substrate will surely equalise with the coolest surround temperature - either the air around the tank or the water ?
Or am I just talking **** ? just trying to think outside the box thats all. :unsure:
 
Heater cables are a waste of cash.

I've used substrate heating, with laterite. I've also used it with Dennerle Deponit. I switched it off. No difference.

Why doesn't Tom Barr use one? Diana Walstad? Takashi Amano? 100s of well-respected plant growers. Tropica don't use them either. Think about that.

The hobby has progressed a fair bit since the twenty or so year-old "The Optimum Aquarium" by Dupla. Clever marketing, that you have quoted/elaborated on very well, made them very popular in the late eighties and nineties.
 
Heater cables are a waste of cash, laterite or no laterite. FYI I've used one, with laterite too. I switched it off, for several months. No difference.

Why doesn't Tom Barr use one? Diana Walstad? Takashi Amano? 100s of well-respected plant growers. Tropica don't use them either.

The hobby has progressed a fair bit since the twenty or so year-old "The Optimum Aquarium" by Dupla.


oops.... well i've placed the order now.

guess that'll be going on ebay if they won't have it back :blush:

what about the sand... is gravel a better choice in general?

i only started looking at a heating cable after they used one in that pfk plant supplement from a few issues back. the buggers.
 
what about the sand... is gravel a better choice in general?

Provided you have good enough nutrients in the substrate, then it becomes a matter of choice. I use Argos play sand which is cheap, readily available from Argos Extra and easily cleaned before putting in the tank.

Think about what bottom dwellers you want, and what they would prefer. My Corys and shrimp wouldn`t be seen sifting through anything else.
 
what about the sand... is gravel a better choice in general?

Provided you have good enough nutrients in the substrate, then it becomes a matter of choice. I use Argos play sand which is cheap, readily available from Argos Extra and easily cleaned before putting in the tank.

Think about what bottom dwellers you want, and what they would prefer. My Corys and shrimp wouldn`t be seen sifting through anything else.


well i've still got a couple of buckets of silver sand from the old set up... which i'd like to use. but i've read about issues with high nutrient levels and sand substrates becoming anoxic in the long term.
 
I have used sand and laterite in my tanks for going on 4 years now, and have never had any problems. It depends on what kind you get. Some tend to compact and don't allow water to pass through. I use pool filter sand since it is dirt cheap, and doesn't seem to compact at all... it stays quite loose - a fish swimming just above it will move it around.

The only problems I find with it is that since it is light enough to be sucked up in a syphon, you can't do a full clean, and The laterite tends to work its self up to top if you jostle the sand around too much.

Other than that, I love it. If I had the money, however, I would switch to a all in one substrate like Flourite or Eco-complete.
 
well i've still got a couple of buckets of silver sand from the old set up... which i'd like to use. but i've read about issues with high nutrient levels and sand substrates becoming anoxic in the long term.

Did you have problems with anaerobic spots on your old set up?

If you are considering a heater cable, then I assumed you are looking at a planted set up. Provided you have enough plants sending out roots throughout the sand, anaerobic spots shouldn`t be a problem.
 
well i've still got a couple of buckets of silver sand from the old set up... which i'd like to use. but i've read about issues with high nutrient levels and sand substrates becoming anoxic in the long term.

Did you have problems with anaerobic spots on your old set up?

If you are considering a heater cable, then I assumed you are looking at a planted set up. Provided you have enough plants sending out roots throughout the sand, anaerobic spots shouldn`t be a problem.



no probs... but the bed was shallow and i hoovered it all the way to the bottom

cool... i'll stick with the sand then

thanks

:good:
 
I have used sand and laterite in my tanks for going on 4 years now, and have never had any problems. It depends on what kind you get. Some tend to compact and don't allow water to pass through. I use pool filter sand since it is dirt cheap, and doesn't seem to compact at all... it stays quite loose - a fish swimming just above it will move it around.

The only problems I find with it is that since it is light enough to be sucked up in a syphon, you can't do a full clean, and The laterite tends to work its self up to top if you jostle the sand around too much.

Other than that, I love it. If I had the money, however, I would switch to a all in one substrate like Flourite or Eco-complete.


I sort of feel like the maount of nutrients in a complete substrate might be less than adding your own though?
 

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