Sigh, looks like I have snails...

[jaylach]

I love the plants I got from https://www.wetplants.com/ but it seems there were some hitch hikers. Right now there are not many that I can see but I seem to have had snails come along with the plants. As best as I can guess there are currently ~6 of the things but, if they are what I think, that could soon be hundreds. Actually they seem more like slugs as there isn't any prominent shell. There are currently no fish in the tank.

What I would like is to identify the snail type and whether I should start 'squishing' or hope I can soon find the dwarf cichlids I want that would probably eat the things.

I WILL say that I over dosed with plant nutrients and have had the light on too much resulting in algae forming. Don't know if it is that I lowered the LED lighting intensity and cut down on plant nutrients or if it is the snails but I can see less algae. Probably mostly the lights and nutrients but I don't know how much algae such critters can consume.

Here are a couple of shots. They just do and don't look like snails.

 

[jaylach]

To add on these critters REALLY seem to be cleaning my plants that were getting heavy algae. The algae was sort of reddish brown. Since these critters showed up the algae is going away and the affected plants are going back to a good looking green.

I just want to know what these critters happen to be. I mean I've seen problem snails before but these just don't look the same. For one fact they seem to move pretty quick. By that I mean that I'll look and see one and five minutes later it is just gone. Another aspect that seems to not be a problem snail is that they just don't seem to have any shell... they are more like garden slugs.

For some reason I don't understand I can't get a really clear photo of the things. The shots in the previous post are the best I've gotten.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

They're bladder snails, also sometimes called pond snails. One type of smallish "pest" snail commonly brought in on plants. Not harmful, and yes, they can move pretty fast when they want to! They can go through population explosions and reproduce in the hundreds, but only if you're overfeeding and/or under cleaning the tank.

Put it this way, I don't like ramshorn snails, I don't even like nerites, but I like these little ones.
Useful article by our very own @AbbeysDad https://www.bing.com/search?q=mulm+...207F40D092DAB0F4DAAF1462&ghsh=0&ghacc=0&ghpl=

 

[jaylach]

They're bladder snails, also sometimes called pond snails. One type of smallish "pest" snail commonly brought in on plants. Not harmful, and yes, they can move pretty fast when they want to! They can go through population explosions and reproduce in the hundreds, but only if you're overfeeding and/or under cleaning the tank.

Put it this way, I don't like ramshorn snails, I don't even like nerites, but I like these little ones.
Useful article by our very own @AbbeysDad https://www.bing.com/search?q=mulm+...207F40D092DAB0F4DAAF1462&ghsh=0&ghacc=0&ghpl=

COOL! I REALLY didn't want to start 'squishing' as I sort of like the little beasties. Would I be off the wall in thinking that the little beasts could be used as a sort of tank barometer? I mean if there is a small and healthy population of the things it is a good sign of tank health. If the population explodes or dies out it would indicate a tank health issue???

Sorry to say that the article linked just takes me to a search page, not a specific article. I'll try to sift through.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

COOL! I REALLY didn't want to start 'squishing' as I sort of like the little beasties. Would I be off the wall in thinking that the little beasts could be used as a sort of tank barometer? I mean if there is a small and healthy population of the things it is a good sign of tank health. If the population explodes or dies out it would indicate a tank health issue???

Sorry to say that the article linked just takes me to a search page, not a specific article. I'll try to sift through.

Whoops! Sorry, does this link work? https://mjvaquatics.com/mulm-and-algae-and-snails-oh-my/

Not off the wall at all, I think they are a good indicator of tank health. It's a mini ecosystem after all, so the snails have their uses! They do help to clean up algae and uneaten bits of fish food/dying plant leaves, helping to break all that down into mulm. If you have loads of them reproducing rapidly, then it's a definite sign that you're over feeding the tank, and/or not cleaning up the substrate often enough, so it can be a good indicator of tank health there and a visual reminder when things get out of balance.

Plus, personal opinion only here, I think they're cuter than most snails... lol.
Their eggs are laid in little jelly sacks, so it's worth removing the egg sacks when you spot them, but you'll never see all of them in a well planted tank, just help keep the numbers manageable if you remove the ones you spot.

 

[jaylach]

Oh, to add on to my above post....

I have a bit of an issue deciding if my tank is ready for fish. I mean Ammonia, nitrites and nitrates all show zero but the tank is just populated with plants and my little beastly snails. Since the snails are VERY active and seem quite happy can I assume that I can start to add some fish? The tank seems fine but it has been the tank from hell. I'm sort of afraid to add fish.

And, YES, I think the little beasties are a bit on the cute side. Do they ever actually get shells or do I just not recognize their shells? To me they really look like little garden slugs with a black tail.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I'm not the best when to comes to cycling from scratch questions, but think of it this way, your tap water should also read 0/0/0 for ammonia/nitrites/nitrates (although sometimes has nitrates) but that doesn't mean the tap water is cycled...
Which method are you using to cycle it? If you're adding a source of ammonia then there's a chart in the cycling section to follow. If you're doing a planted, "silent" cycle then you're ready to begin by adding a small number of fish once you see the plants are growing.
I've only ever cycled a tank by starting with a seeded cycle, taking media and substrate from a healthy established tank, so I've kinda cheated my way past all of that, I'm sorry!
But a tank that snails can live in doesn't necessarily mean it's safe for fish. These snails get everywhere because they're very adaptable and pretty tough to eradicate. One indicator of a healthy ecosystem, sure, but not a reliable sole indicator.

 

[jaylach]

I guess I'm just a bit afraid. Initially I had a very healthy tank with all artificial plants and corys and black skirt tetras. All was fine. Decided to go gradually to live plants and got one from Petco that was contaminated and it killed all my fish in a day and a half.

I now have a tank that is totally live plants and all seems fine but I'm still afraid to add fish as I don't want more to die. I have no actual reason to think that added fish would die but I'm still afraid...

Another issue I'm having is that I can't find a source for the fish I want. I just can't seem to justify getting fish I don't really want just to have fish.

I also have issues as to fish I want. I REALLY... REALLY want a rope fish but logic says they get too big for a 20 gallon tank as they can get up to 15-18 inches long. Yet, from my experience and a friend's I have never seen one get over ten inches in a tank. A ten inch rope fish with a cave system would work fine.

I'm just at a loss. I'm interested in rosy loaches, rope fish and south american dwarf red breast cichlids but can't find any anywhere.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I guess I'm just a bit afraid. Initially I had a very healthy tank with all artificial plants and corys and black skirt tetras. All was fine. Decided to go gradually to live plants and got one from Petco that was contaminated and it killed all my fish in a day and a half.

I now have a tank that is totally live plants and all seems fine but I'm still afraid to add fish as I don't want more to die. I have no actual reason to think that added fish would die but I'm still afraid...

Another issue I'm having is that I can't find a source for the fish I want. I just can't seem to justify getting fish I don't really want just to have fish.

I also have issues as to fish I want. I REALLY... REALLY want a rope fish but logic says they get too big for a 20 gallon tank as they can get up to 15-18 inches long. Yet, from my experience and a friend's I have never seen one get over ten inches in a tank. A ten inch rope fish with a cave system would work fine.

I'm just at a loss. I'm interested in rosy loaches, rope fish and south american dwarf red breast cichlids but can't find any anywhere.

Man, I'm sorry That's rough.
I can't help with the stocking/supply issues I'm afraid (but I wouldn't keep a fish that has the potential to get that large in a cube shaped tank, since stunting a fish's growth is pretty cruel - plus, wouldn't it eat rosy loaches? Or at least attempt to?) but the fear about stocking again I can completely empathise with. Have you seen me share about the time I bought a few plants from my LFS on impulse, and started to lose my red cherry shrimp colony to a toxin? I can find and link the thread if you want to see it.

In summary though, due to EU/UK laws around imported plants, any plants grown outside of the EU have to be sprayed with or dipped in a pest killing pesticide, so they don't bring certain snails or insects into the EU. This wasn't always advertised and the pesticide isn't easy to remove, and it also affects inverts like shrimp by affecting their shell production, so they can't moult properly and die off. Since it's not a sudden mass die off either, it took me a while and some help from here to figure out it was the new plants I'd added causing the increased losses I was seeing every day.

Since everything in that tank was now potentially contaminated, I had to rush to set up an emergency second tank just for the shrimp. The fish weren't harmed, but I didn't want to lose my entire shrimp colony, just as they'd been doing so well. So I set up a clean tank, brand new substrate/hardscape, and only bought plants that had been grown in-vitro, since I knew those wouldn't have been sprayed. I still lost a fair few that had been exposed to the pesticide, but enough of the colony survived once moved that it was worth all the stress and hassle. So I personally know how horrible it is to have something like that happen, and it's natural that you'd be nervous about re-stocking!

I wouldn't usually recommend buying some cheaper fish to use just for this purpose, but in this case, why don't you think about buying a small group of hardy, inexpensive fish like zebra danios? Like a group of six danios or harlequins, to help prove to yourself that the tank is safe for fish now, to help keep the tank cycled while you search for the fish you want, and if you decide to keep them, danios especially stay at the top and wouldn't be a risk or at risk to the cichlids or rosy loaches.

 

[Naughts]

@AdoraBelle Dearheart do you have snails like that? Where the body is too big to fit in the shell? They seem deformed, I wonder why.

 

[jaylach]

Well, thanks for all you said but it is too late. I paid a lot to get but I have a rope fish on the way. While I understand the size concern the things just don't seem to get over ten inches in a tank.

I have had the critters in tanks from 30-75 gallons. Never has one gotten longer than ten inches. A friend also loves the things and had one in a 175 gallon tank. He agrees that in a tank the thing never got longer than 10 inches. Sadly she is no longer with us but a wonderful lady by the name of Nancy in Euclid Ohio was an aquatic vet and actually did surgeries on fish. Her view on ropes was that it was more important to have 'twisty' cave system than actual tank size. With my tree trunk thingy having several openings it is an involved cave system.

I'm really taking a big risk as I'm paying a lot for a fish to start my tank but the tank's prams are about perfect for this fish.

Rope fish are VERY passive and even human friendly. Still they are quite stout and able to defend their area. Since I also want a couple of dwarf cichlids it seems reasonable to let the rope fish be first so it can establish it's area. I've done this before and have seen that most cichlids don't want to mess with a pissed off Rope.

LOL! I had a Rope in a tank with blue and yellow Acar, convicts, green terrors and Jack Dempsey. The chichids didn't mess with the rope as the thing would just sort of ignore. If ignoring didn't work the rope would just kick ass. I mean that seriously. Rope fish are next to blind and go mostly by smell and vibration. Makes them a little slow as to finding food but they will hunt and find food.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

@AdoraBelle Dearheart do you have snails like that? Where the body is too big to fit in the shell? They are deformed, I wonder why.

IS the body too big to fit the shell?? I didn't realise, the photos aren't super clear, but thought we were just seeing the foot of the snail?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Well, thanks for all you said but it is too late. I paid a lot to get but I have a rope fish on the way. While I understand the size concern the things just don't seem to get over ten inches in a tank.

I have had the critters in tanks from 30-75 gallons. Never has one gotten longer than ten inches. A friend also loves the things and had one in a 175 gallon tank. He agrees that in a tank the thing never got longer than 10 inches. Sadly she is no longer with us but a wonderful lady by the name of Nancy in Euclid Ohio was an aquatic vet and actually did surgeries on fish. Her view on ropes was that it was more important to have 'twisty' cave system than actual tank size. With my tree trunk thingy having several openings it is an involved cave system.

I'm really taking a big risk as I'm paying a lot for a fish to start my tank but the tank's prams are about perfect for this fish.

Rope fish are VERY passive and even human friendly. Still they are quite stout and able to defend their area. Since I also want a couple of dwarf cichlids it seems reasonable to let the rope fish be first so it can establish it's area. I've done this before and have seen that most cichlids don't want to mess with a pissed off Rope.

LOL! I had a Rope in a tank with blue and yellow Acar, convicts, green terrors and Jack Dempsey. The chichids didn't mess with the rope as the thing would just sort of ignore. If ignoring didn't work the rope would just kick ass. I mean that seriously. Rope fish are next to blind and go mostly by smell and vibration. Makes them a little slow as to finding food but they will hunt and find food.

Okay... so why say all the stuff you said this morning about not being able to get fish and not being sure it was fair to keep one in your tank?
Rosy loaches are a lot smaller and more edible than a green terror or ack dempsey... ropefish are predatory, are they not?

 

[Naughts]

IS the body too big to fit the shell?? I didn't realise, the photos aren't super clear, but thought we were just seeing the foot of the snail?

The shells are tiny, and Jaylach describes them as more like slugs with little discernable shell. I guess fish will finish them off quickly as they have no defense without a full size shell.

 

[jaylach]

Okay... so why say all the stuff you said this morning about not being able to get fish and not being sure it was fair to keep one in your tank?
Rosy loaches are a lot smaller and more edible than a green terror or ack dempsey... ropefish are predatory, are they not?

Actually I've been looking for a source for a rope fish for months. While my tank is not perfect for this this fish it is OK. Yes, a rope is a predictor but is not really a danger to active fish as the poor things are close to blind. They hunt by smell and water movement.

Sigh, ropes are just different. They like meal worms and will eat them out of your hand. They also like their lower chin rubbed. I'm also sure that the new Rope will control the snail situation as a soft snail is a natural food.

I guess I don't really know how to actually describe a rope fish. I guess one would have to think of a 'water puppy'. The critters are totally peaceful and will get along with just about any other fish. Still they will not be messed with. While mellow I have seen a seven inch Rope kick butt on a six inch Acara. Oddly, after the battle, they seemed to become friends ans swam together.