Sick goldfish :(

[Iamsophh]

Hi everyone,
Please help with what this could be, ive tried treating it and she has her appetite back, but the spots are still there, shes swimming round the tank as normal and water change has been done with all parameters within range. Ive had her for 6 years and never had this issue

 

[Colin_T]

How long has the fish had the white dots?

What is the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH of the water?
What sort of filter is on the aquarium?
How often and how do you clean the filter?

How often do you do water changes and how much do you change?
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
Do you dechlorinate the new water before adding it to the aquarium?

What have you treated the fish with and when did you treat it?

What other symptoms does it have besides the white dots on the head?

 

[Iamsophh]

Its been a week since i noticed the intial lack of appetite symptoms, but the white dots are since Sunday, PH is 7.5, nitrate 0-10 nitrite 0 GH 180 KH 120. The filter is interpet CF2, tank is 80 litre, filter parts are changed end of every month and cleaned with the tank water every month, small water change is done every 2 weeks at 20% and 40% every 4 weeks, gravel is cleaned every 2 weeks with a gravel sifter, tap safe is used with all new water that is put in, the fish was treated with lovefish Healthy Goldfish medication to treat infections or parasites, that was done on 18/11 and retreated 5 days later as stated on bottle. No other major symptoms as appetite is coming back slowly

 

[MattW]

Welcome to the Forum! I love that profile pic of the goldie looks like they are waving.

The filter is interpet CF2, tank is 80 litre, filter parts are changed end of every month and cleaned with the tank water every month, small water change is done every 2 weeks at 20% and 40% every 4 weeks, gravel is cleaned every 2 weeks with a gravel sifter

Im assuming you change the parts with the service packs? IMO it probably isnt the best idea to remove and change some of the media in this filter. Alot of that media will be home to benefical bacteria. Goldfish are known to be a species with a larger bioload, so prodcution of waste products is much more extensive compared to other species. (@Essjay could explain this alot better than me. Nitrogen cycle etc). Perhaps larger water changes are needed as bioload is larger? Ive also just noticed this filter contains carbon. This will reduce the affects of the medication you have dosed as carbon absorbs most chemicals used in medication IME.

What sort of filter is on the aquarium?

As for the white dots. Ive never kept goldfish so my expiernce with them is practically nil. @CassCats any ideas?

I hope the goldfish gets better

 

[Iamsophh]

Welcome to the Forum! I love that profile pic of the goldie looks like they are waving.

Im assuming you change the parts with the service packs? IMO it probably isnt the best idea to remove and change some of the media in this filter. Alot of that media will be home to benefical bacteria. Goldfish are known to be a species with a larger bioload, so prodcution of waste products is much more extensive compared to other species. (@Essjay could explain this alot better than me. Nitrogen cycle etc). Perhaps larger water changes are needed as bioload is larger? Ive also just noticed this filter contains carbon. This will reduce the affects of the medication you have dosed as carbon absorbs most chemicals used in medication IME.


View attachment 355043View attachment 355044

As for the white dots. Ive never kept goldfish so my expiernce with them is practically nil. @CassCats any ideas?

I hope the goldfish gets better

Hello! Thanks for your support! I only take out the algae pad that is recommended to be changed every month and the waste pad as it gets full every month, i was considering a bigger filter but i think its not necessary at the moment. Whilst treating the fish i had taken out the carbon part of the filter as instructed so the medication worked properly the bumps are very odd and never have seen them on her before in the 6 years ive had her

 

[MattW]

There are only a few things I can think of Ich/Protozoan and Epistylis. Is the tank heated? I've heard that can help for ich treatment. Other members are much more clued up on diseases than I am.

 

[Iamsophh]

Tank is 20° currently, i have a second goldfish and he isnt showing any signs of being unwell at all, hes been eating well and very active, no spots either so very confused as it doesnt look like Ich to me, potentially a bacterial infection as its looking a bit wispy?

 

[Colin_T]

The white dots are not white spot, Lymphocystis or any disease I have seen. It kind of looks like breeding spots but they normally occur on the gill cover not on the head, and only occur on male fish. There is a disease that affects cichlids called hole in the head disease but I have never heard of it affecting goldfish. I would do a big (75%) water change and gravel clean the substrate each day for a week and see if it helps.

The lack of appetite can be related to poor water quality (possibly ammonia) or an internal infection.
Is the fish eating anything?
Do they get any plant matter in their diet?
What does its poop look like?

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You don't want an anti-algae pad in the filter. Algicides are harmful to plants and fish and whilst the dots and lack of appetite are probably unrelated, you don't want algicides in the water. You can replace it with a sponge that is the same size or slightly bigger. Sponges get washed in a bucket of tank water each month and the sponge will last for years. The bucket of dirty water gets poured on the lawn or garden outside.

If you have an algae problem you can deal with it via light, live plants or water changes.

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Any idea what the ammonia level is in the water?

Any idea what the ingredients are in the medication you used?

What's a gravel sifter?

You want to use a gravel cleaner like the one in the following link (about half way down the page). Use it every week to keep the gravel clean. Do a 75% water change too because it will dilute things more effectively than small water changes.

Aquarium Cleaning Made Easy

Aquarium cleaning should take 30 minutes every two weeks. Learn how the professionals do it in 18 easy steps.

www.about-goldfish.com

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FIRST AID FOR FISH
Test the water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. You have done most of this but there is no ammonia reading. The fish has a bit of excess mucous on its face and eyes and this can be caused by ammonia or other chemicals in the water.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until the problem is identified. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

 

[CassCats]

I would be suspicious of hole in the head, to be honest. The early stages of it. They can get white ooze on them and they can be caused by poor water quality or protozoan infections (hexamita).

Do a big water change (slowly at first if you aren't used to doing large ones), clean your filter (don't throw out cycled media, but replace floss, squeeze out sponge, etc), and I would opt to try treating this with metronidazole (Metroplex).

HITH isn't common with goldfish, but not impossible. Early stages of this disease can be white spots on the head, especially in the sensory pits of fish, and along the lateral line in severe cases. And it can look white and filmy. Goldfish produce a ton of waste, so water quality is harder to manage with them, which can lead to cases like this as pathogens slowly build up in the water.

Case and point here, progression of it in my elderly ram, he recovered with several rounds of metronidazole meds

 

[Jinx_]

Hello! Thanks for your support! I only take out the algae pad that is recommended to be changed every month and the waste pad as it gets full every month, i was considering a bigger filter but i think its not necessary at the moment. Whilst treating the fish i had taken out the carbon part of the filter as instructed so the medication worked properly the bumps are very odd and never have seen them on her before in the 6 years ive had her

Do you use the Interpet filter? I don't recommend their filters, they quickly break over time and are annoying to clean (in my experience).

DO NOT change out filter pads monthly, it's only recommended by companies so you give them more money. This in fact takes out any beneficial bacteria which causes issues later down the line. You want to keep the media and clean it out in a bucketful of tank water, this preserves the bacteria which stabilises tank water parameters.

You also want to give us actual numbers for your pH, KH, GH, nitrates, nitrites AND ammonia (you missed ammonia out).
So get API Master Test Kit on eBay, Mars Pet Care has their UK based shop on there. I bought mine off there, good price.
I assume you use test strips, these aren't accurate and don't give specific levels. The liquid test kit is much more trustworthy.

While you figure out the issue with others, I would personally recommend to do a 75% water change.

What is the tank size (in litres or gallons, and dimensions)?

 

[Essjay]

For GH the cheapest way to find out is to look on your water company's website for 'hardness'. They should give it as words, ignore those, and as a number. You need the unit of measurement as well as the number as there are are several different hardness units.

 

[Guest5431]

You also want to give us actual numbers for your pH, KH, GH, nitrates, nitrites AND ammonia (you missed ammonia out).
So get API Master Test Kit on eBay, Mars Pet Care has their UK based shop on there. I bought mine off there, good price.

That's pretty much a waste of good money for a tank that's been established 6 years, especially if the cleaning regime has been consistent. A water quality issue at this stage strong enough to trigger ammonia or nitrite would most likely also be causing other symptoms from water cloudiness to red gills, labored breathing, ick out breaks, etc...

Treating blindly, incorrectly can also cause a lot more problems like when the person above is telling you to heat the tank because it helps with ick. Heat in particular just speeds up the life cycle unless you take it up high enough for the temp itself to be lethal which cold water species would not enjoy so all you would be doing most likely is speeding up whatever is causing the problem, lowering the oxygen levels of the tank from the warmer water and possible helping it get worse.

Most stores offer some type of limited free testing or small fee testing, especially if you've been a customer for years.

You can also consult with your local vets maybe as simply as taking a picture into their office if not the entire fish in a cooler. Guessing and treating with the wrong stuff wastes money and is frequently more harmful than what you're trying to cure. Safe bets in non planted tanks, adding or additional salt to outright salt dips which I'm sure you can find instructions for. Salts good for many things including making Nitrite pretty much a non concern, tackling ick before it gets started and shows signs of damage and costs almost nothing with table salt in your kitchen working perfectly fine for most needs.

As always, consulting a vet/professional never hurts.

 

[Jinx_]

That's pretty much a waste of good money

Never a waste of money, it lasts long. And whether the tank is fully stablished or not, always better to test water. I know my tank is established, yet I still test. And even if tank is established, a balance crash can happen any day and time

 

[CassCats]

I'd agree it's worth having accurate tests on hand. You can go long times without using them, but when poop hits the fan are you going to trust the half trained petstore worker to tell you your water is fine or will you read it yourself knowing what you're looking for?

My street did construction on the water ways, putting in new pipes. A block over from where I live. Had no clue my water changed from that. Did a water change like normal and BOOM every fish in that tank started dropping like flies.

The pH had crashed in my tapwater. Having a quick test on hand told me what the problem was within minutes, I didn't have to run around to a store and hope they knew what to look for. This was a couple years in the hobby for me that this happened to me as well. Turns out the construction caused the tap pH to come out at 6.4, way below my old pH of 7.6, and the nano fish did not appreciate that sudden change. If I didn't test, I'd be grasping at straws for what happened and if it was another problem or a parameter problem.


It's better to have it in case there's sudden emergencies. Because some stuff isn't predictable and we should always test accurately if and when something goes wrong in a tank. Doesn't mean you need to test weekly, but it's one of those things that should be essential in an emergency kit.

 

[Guest5431]

You're wrong but you're welcome to your beliefs. The only number that may change slightly over six years of doing pretty much the same thing over and over again is the nitrate and even that stabilizes to be about the same number right before each water change over time. I sell test kits and even I don't see a need for continually testing numbers that are never going to show up or ones that are going to be the exact same over and over and over again. All your doing is wasting, time and money. If something bad is going to magically, suddenly happen after 6 years that a test kit would identify, then it'll be accompanied by other clear signs that would then let you know to maybe have a free test done at a store or your regular supplier. Cloudy water, gasping at the surface, you name it and there will be obvious signs. Even nitrate with identical pretty much everything stabolizes.
End of week 1 you have 10ppm, do a 50% water change and now have 5ppm.
End of week 2 you have 15ppm, do a 50% water change and now have 7.5ppm.
End of week 3 you have 17.5ppm, do a 50% water change and now have 8.75ppm.
End of week 4 you have 18.75ppm, do a 50% water change and now have 9.375ppm.
End of week 5 you have 19.375ppm, do a 50% water change and now have 9.6875ppm.
End of week 6 you have 19.6875ppm, do a 50% water change and now have 9.84375ppm.
End of week 7 you have 19.84375ppm, do a 50% water change and now have 9.921875ppm.
End of week 8 you have 19.921875ppm, do a 50% water change and now have 9.9609375ppm.
Do I need to keep going? The increases and deviations at this point are so small you cannot tell the difference anyway with an AP test kit. Sure things can change, but whatever the changes are, the numbers level off again making long term testing of them pretty much a waste of time unless there is an obvious sign that say to and that's a sign you can pop in your local store and have them check for you or maybe even pop down to the vet and get a professional opinion instead of random internet guys half baked nonsense. Something that takes a long time to go bad still goes bad and is still a waste for a stable one tank hobbyists needs if there's no obvious reason to use it which an established goldfish tank getting the same pretty much everything on a regular pattern fits that bill. Keep maintaining your tank and if something obvious pops up then get another opinion at the store or at the vet.