Sick Fish... Argh

[lgarvey]

Hi,

I've posted a few times with fish that appeared to be sick with gill flukes. Everything was OK for a period of time, now it seems two fish are infectred with something, but I can't figure out what it is.

Water params: Am 0, Ni 0, Na ~ 10ppm, pH 8, temp 24 degrees

The tank is well maintained with two external filters and has a regular 30% water change with dechlorinated water. The tank is well aerated with a large airstone.

I'm currently treating the with waterlife sterazin (treatment for gill flukes) but it isn't making much of a difference. The two fish in question still seem to be having some trouble.

The fish are all lake malawi mbuna with two male aulonocara (peacocks) and 3 small synos. One mbuna and one peacock are currently exhibiting symptoms. They get decent food about twice a day, but I'm careful not to overfeed. I feed them a lot of vegetable based food (for the malawis) wiht regular cucumber etc. and I feed tetra prima and other stuff for the peacocks, and catfish pelets for the catfish.

One fish appeared to have lost its balance and kept lilting to one side. Then it figured out it could wedge itself between two rocks. However, when it comes out now it seems ot be balancing much better, but still retreats back into the space between the two rocks. It was getting picked on when it started to have the balance problems.

The other fish, which was normally very active and alpha (it's the biggest fish in the tank) is now stuck in the corner of the tank with its fins clamped looking rather miserable. It doesn't appear interested in food and appears to be losing weight.

Both fish are breathing heavily. The fish in the corner of the tank is normally very bright coloured -- it's a bright shiney blue, but it almost looks as if it's turned dull. I'd say that it appears as if it's whole body is covered in something but it's so thin and there's no spots or anything else that is obvious, BUT it's really hard to describe... it appears as though there's now two small patches on either side of the fish's body where either the skin is flaking off, OR the dull covering (if this even exists) is flaking off.

There's no obivous symptoms and there hasn't been throughout. I've lost other fish seemingly with the same symptoms. It's so damned confusing, but they all seem to deteriorate in the same way a fish I got initially deteriorated. I bought a batch of fish and didn't realise that one of them was already in an advaced stage of some kind of illness. The LFS promptly replaced teh fish with a fish from the same tank and I foolishly accepted it. That fish died the same way the first did but took a few weeks for it to happen. From then on a fish regularly seems to develop similar symptoms and then start to deteriorate.

If anyone has any ideas or advice I'd really appreciate it!

L

 

[WILDER]

The symtoms you are describing can be flukes to columnaris.

Signs of flukes are.
Pale body with excess slime.
pale gills with excess slime or red and inflamed.
Erratic swimming.
Flicking and rubbing.
Laboured breathing or gasping near surface of tank.
Spitting food out.
Weightloss sometimes.
Swimming in a jerky movement.
Sores on body of fish.

Flukes cause bacterial infections as in there hooks they carry a nasty bacteria which enters the fish blood stream when it pierces the skin.

How long do you climatise new fish for.
As fish can produce more slimecoat with ph shock.

 

[lgarvey]

Hi Wilder!

All the fish have been in the tank for a few months. When I first put them in I acclimated them for at least 15 mins. As they're all malawis they were coming from very similar pH conditions anyway.

I don't know what excess slime would look like, but the gills look fine. One fish is very pale and so gill problems would be obvious, but they seem fairly OK. There's a small amount of flicking, but both fish seem very lethargic now and aren't eating. No gasping near the surface of the tank. There's no obivous sores, apart from the two very small patches I talked about on the blue peacock. Almost seems as though something on the fish was disrupted, but it could be skin pealing or something else.

I have enough sterazin for two courses of treatment; as I wanted to really go to town on it if it was fluked, but I suspect maybe it isn't fluked. Though perhaps flukes caused the initial trauma that has now become something else. I thought I noticed the blue fish also loosing it's balance the other day, it appeared to start lilting to one side, but at the same time other fish had begin to pick on it (fish half its size), obviously noticing that it is becoming weak.

I've been trying to find a local vet who might deal wtih fish disease, but haven't had any luck.

L

The symtoms you are describing can be flukes to columnaris.

Signs of flukes are.
Pale body with excess slime.
pale gills with excess slime or red and inflamed.
Erratic swimming.
Flicking and rubbing.
Laboured breathing or gasping near surface of tank.
Spitting food out.
Weightloss sometimes.
Swimming in a jerky movement.
Sores on body of fish.

Flukes cause bacterial infections as in there hooks they carry a nasty bacteria which enters the fish blood stream when it pierces the skin.

How long do you climatise new fish for.
As fish can produce more slimecoat with ph shock.

 

[WILDER]

How long have you been using the waterlife med as I don't rate it much.
Going to get colin t to take a look as it pointing towards columnaris to parasites.
Fish can flick with columnaris.

 

[Colin_T]

It could be something like Coccidiosis or Hexamita. These affect the internal organs of the fish and cause it to waste away over a period of time. It is a bit like Bali belly and you end up with a stomach bug that causes you to lose weight and become unwell. Without medication you get worse.
Coccidiosis is hard to treat but Hexamita (also known as hole in the head disease) can be treated with Metronidazole (Flagyl) but it is a prescription only drug. So you will need a vet to get you some. Tolak uses it to treat his angels and should be able to give you info on how much to use.

Fish have a mucous coating over their body. When they are stressed they produce more mucous and it can make them look like they are covered in a cream or white film. Sometimes the mucous sloughs off the fish and it looks like their skin is peeling off. But it is a semi-transparent colour and fish skin is usually coloured.

Praziquantel is a better choice for treating gill flukes. It also treats tapeworm in fish (and other animals). You can get it from most petshops in either the fish section (used for treating flukes and worms) or from the cat and dog section where it is used to treat tapeworm in those animals.
Use 100mg of Praziquantel per 20litres of tank water. Do a partial water change 24-48hours later. Re-treat the tank a week later, followed by another water change.

To work out the volume of water in the tank
measure Length x Width x Height in cm
divide by 1000
equals volume in litres

When measuring the height, measure from the top of the gravel to the top of the water level. If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove them before measuring the height.

Before you treat the tank do a 50% water change and complete gravel clean. This will reduce the gunk in the tank and allow the medication to work more effectively. It will also lower the pathogen count in the water and mean there are less nasties around to infect the fish.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating otherwise it will absorb the medication out of the water.

Praziquantel is safe for all fish, including catfish and loaches. Many medications can cause problems to catfish so be careful when treating the tank with things like Sterzain.

 

[lgarvey]

Hi,

This information is really helpful. Thanks!

The fish definitely has an excessive amount of slime then which is kind of flaking off.

The symptoms are: -

very occasional flashing
lingering in one place, not active
excessive slime production - fish looks dull
no other external symptoms whatsoever
not eating - the blue peacock would swollow catfish tablets whole, then expel the dust through his gills (silly fish). Now, if I put a tablet in the tank he puts it in his mouth, then spits it out repeatedly.
the other fish - assuming the same problem -- is exhibiting similar symptoms and a big loss of balance
heaving breathing

Sterazin is apparently safe for catfish and doesn't affect the biological filter. I used a dose a couple of weeks ago because the blue peacock was looking miserable and he seemed to perk up immediately. This time he's not perking up.

Based on that would you suggest continuing treatment for gil flukes, or do the symptoms indicate something else?

L

It could be something like Coccidiosis or Hexamita. These affect the internal organs of the fish and cause it to waste away over a period of time. It is a bit like Bali belly and you end up with a stomach bug that causes you to lose weight and become unwell. Without medication you get worse.
Coccidiosis is hard to treat but Hexamita (also known as hole in the head disease) can be treated with Metronidazole (Flagyl) but it is a prescription only drug. So you will need a vet to get you some. Tolak uses it to treat his angels and should be able to give you info on how much to use.

Fish have a mucous coating over their body. When they are stressed they produce more mucous and it can make them look like they are covered in a cream or white film. Sometimes the mucous sloughs off the fish and it looks like their skin is peeling off. But it is a semi-transparent colour and fish skin is usually coloured.

Praziquantel is a better choice for treating gill flukes. It also treats tapeworm in fish (and other animals). You can get it from most petshops in either the fish section (used for treating flukes and worms) or from the cat and dog section where it is used to treat tapeworm in those animals.
Use 100mg of Praziquantel per 20litres of tank water. Do a partial water change 24-48hours later. Re-treat the tank a week later, followed by another water change.

To work out the volume of water in the tank
measure Length x Width x Height in cm
divide by 1000
equals volume in litres

When measuring the height, measure from the top of the gravel to the top of the water level. If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove them before measuring the height.

Before you treat the tank do a 50% water change and complete gravel clean. This will reduce the gunk in the tank and allow the medication to work more effectively. It will also lower the pathogen count in the water and mean there are less nasties around to infect the fish.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating otherwise it will absorb the medication out of the water.

Praziquantel is safe for all fish, including catfish and loaches. Many medications can cause problems to catfish so be careful when treating the tank with things like Sterzain.

 

[WILDER]

I would order this med online as the waterlife med you can be treating for ages with the stuff.
http/www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/php/detail62_45492.php

 

[Colin_T]

I wouldn't bother treating the fish for gill flukes at this stage because the sterazin didn't fix the problem. Theoretically if it was gill flukes the sterazin should have made a noticeable difference, but it hasn't. I would treat them for hexamita and make sure the tank is spotlessly clean. Then see how they do. If they continue to die then get one autopsied by a fish vet.

 

[WILDER]

Colin wormer plus it meant to treat hole in the head but don't know how good the med is though.

 

[Spishkey]

esha hexamita is also good to treat HITH disease. i used it on my oscars and theres was a noticably difference in days! you can buy it online and dont need to go to a vet for it