Serious Problems - Lots Of Dead And Dying Fish!

[MartinD]

Hi,

We had a tank with 3 loaches, 1 swordtail, 1 gourami and 8 neon tetras and 1 plec.

I say had, because the fish have been systematically dying - nearing 1 every day!!

The plec died about 1 week after we bought it.... cause of death unknown.

We noticed the clown loaches had whitespot and I got a treatment for that approximately 2 days after first noticing the problem.
Some of the neon tetras showed signs of NTD and so we removed them from the tank.

This left us with about 6 tetras left. Over the past week, the health of our fish has deteriorated dramatically.
We now have 1 tetra left. One of the clown loaches died yesterday during the day.

The two remaining loaches _still_ have whitespot, one of them isn't looking good at all - he's gone very pale and placid.

The swordtail and gourami seem completely fine - no issues with them at all.

The tank started off with some neons, the gourami and swordtail. we purchased 1 clown loach and they were all happy together.
The remaining fish are the fish we had before purchasing the others:

we started with the gourami, swordtail and clown loach + 4 neons.
I'm not sure what's caused this however the health of the fish deteriorated about 1 week after introducing the following:

6 neon tetras
2 clown loaches
1 plec
plants (all plants are fine and healthy and growing well)

Can anyone suggest any reasons for this and steps to rescue the remaining loaches and tetra which aren't looking too healthy?
I have a feeling that I'll wake up in the morning to another dead loach and tetra - leaving me with my original fish only

We've had the water tested - all levels were fine. Phosphates were slightly high, but nothing to cause concern.

Please help


*EDIT* - I should add, too, that we started trying frozen bloodworm for the fish. So far, we've used 2 cubes (1 a week ) - could this have introduced something?

 

[stang1]

What size tank is it?
What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH?

 

[MartinD]

What size tank is it?
What are your readings for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH?

The tank is 24 US gallons/ 90 litres
I don't know what the readings are - but just over a week ago we had them all checked at the local store (they come highly recommended) and he said
our levels were all fine.. the Ph was 7, i think - that's about all I can remember apart from him saying that everything was fine and the phosphates were a
little high.

The tank is also running with a phosphate bag in the filter to help this.

 

[stang1]

Have the other fish got any signs of illness at all?
It's worth investing in a liquid test kit so you can keep an eye on the water parameters without relying on your lfs.
Take another sample of water to be tested to make sure that your water is still fine.
Did the lfs use test strips or a liquid test kit for your water?
Also, have you got another tank that you can use to quarantine your fish?

 

[MartinD]

Have the other fish got any signs of illness at all?
It's worth investing in a liquid test kit so you can keep an eye on the water parameters without relying on your lfs.
Take another sample of water to be tested to make sure that your water is still fine.
Did the lfs use test strips or a liquid test kit for your water?
Also, have you got another tank that you can use to quarantine your fish?

The other fish all seem fine - the Gourami and swordtail don't seem to be affected by anything at all.

The LFS used a liquid kit - lots of test tubes etc.

We do have another tank we can use - it's a much smaller tank and isn't current running - it's empty and in a cupboard.
The meds we used was "Waterlife Protozin" - 5ml per day for 3 days, break for 2 then another on the 6th. It was having no effect
so I started to repeat the course and we're on day 8

 

[WILDER]

The tank was way overstocked for a 24 gallons.If your fish had ntd it can wipe a whole tank out.http/freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/neondisease.htm

 

[MartinD]

I don't think the tank was/is overstocked... it's a large tank and it was only small fish.

in inches, 36 x 12 x 13

 

[rabbut]

Hi,
I would recomend getting a liquid drop test kit. If this in not possible for whatever reason, get another test ran but the LFS, and get the to write the results down. LFS's will often not flag up problems with water quality, even if they show caurse for consern. Once you have a set of results post them on here, so that we can confirm/eliminate water quality issues as a caursing factor in your trouble.
Clown Loach are known for their suseptibility to whitespot after having beeing moved. This is the likely source of the outbreak. Try to get either protozin (by waterlife) or Interpet number 6 (i think), Antiwhitespot plus from the LFS, when you nest visuit. Untill then, do a large-ish waterchange, to help correct any potential water quality issues.
I am consered about the clown loches in that size tank. Clown loach can get to arround 1 foot in length, and will only feel secure in groups of 6+. After the whitespot has cleared up, it may be an idea to consider moving them on to somebody else with a larger tank, or returning them to the shop. Same with the plac. If he is a common, he will max out at 18inch. Other than that stocking looks good.
HTH
Rabbut

 

[MartinD]

I think i'll just have to get a water test done at the lfs first thing in the morning.

The LFS knew the size of my tank and sold me these fish. I had also been told by other enthusiasts that clown loaches (like gourami's)
grow to a size dependant on the tank. Is this not right?

They were/are only about 3 inches... and have been for some time.

 

[stang1]

Unfortunately, some lfs aren't completely truthful when it comes to selling fish.
By keeping fish that grow big in a smaller tank will cause health problems and lead them to live a shorter life.
Clown Loaches are best kept in groups and ideally need a tank size of 90G+.

 

[rabbut]

I think i'll just have to get a water test done at the lfs first thing in the morning.

This is fine, so long as you get the exact results, rather than just taking their word for it. LFS often give bad advise here.

The LFS knew the size of my tank and sold me these fish. I had also been told by other enthusiasts that clown loaches (like gourami's)
grow to a size dependant on the tank. Is this not right?

Fish growing to the size of the tank is linked to stunting. It is commonly belived that smaller tanks do not course stunting, rather a build-up of hormones in the water do. These hormones are unlikly to affect large fish, so long as good water quality is maintained. This means that as long as you maintain your tank correctly, the Clown Loach will get to 1/3 of the tanks length, and as long as your tank is wide!!!!! If they do not get this big, I may surgest that this would be a result of lack of maintanance.

They were/are only about 3 inches... and have been for some time.

How long have you had them???
HTH
Rabbut

 

[MartinD]

How long have you had them???

Well, I've had the original for about 4-5 months. I know it's not a long time, but he hasn't really grown much in that time.. he's bulked out, but not so much in length.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Please understand that pet shop employees are not always as knowledgeable as they seem to be. It's much easier to pretend you know what you are talking about to make the sale (and look good to your boss), than it is to actually do all the research and refuse to sell fish that aren't suitable together. Most pet store employees don't make that much money (which means they are less likely to be motivated to become knowledgeable), and owners need to sell things to make money, so they may push things that you don't need or shouldn't mix together. Remember that fish are pretty diverse, so it does take a fair amount of time investment to become a real expert. There are a lot of myths in fishkeeping, and unfortunately even people who have been keeping fish for years haven't bothered spending the time to research the facts. We have nothing to gain by telling you lies or misinformation here...the pet store has your money to gain. We just want what is best for your fish (and your sanity).

Phosphates won't hurt your fish by the way...the only negative effect that you'll see with phosphates is possibly some algae problems. I wouldn't keep wasting money on the phosphate removers.

What is your water change schedule like by the way?

 

[MartinD]

well, we had been doing water changes every week (15%) until we were advised not to do it so often - because changing it so often was probably introducing
more phosphates into the water. This all started because we had an algae problem.

I totally understand and appreciate what you're saying about the LFS, however, the guy I deal with owns the place and they've been in business for a long long time.

The problem I have is that everyone gives different advice. You guys say one thing, another source says another and so on. And researching on the net gives different opinions and results too - it's very very difficult to get definitive answers to problems.

 

[MartinD]

just been talking to a breeder and he's advised a little salt and slowly reducing the temperature.

To be honest, i've just checked on the loaches and they don't look good at all so I think come morning, they'll be pretty much dead.