Serious Problem With Tank/fish

[Narutofan]

I guess I'll start with the basics.

1. 29 gallon saltwater.
2. Ph level is between 7.8 and 8.4
3. my nitrate and nitrite is 0
4. My alkilinity is between 180 and 300
5. My salinity is stuck between 1.012 1.014
6. the temp is 78 degrees.

I've had small salt water puffers alone in the tank, I've had clownfish in the tank, and now I've had Damsels.

One puffer died after 7 months. one died in 12 hours. one died in 2 days, the clowns died in two days

and now the two of my three damsels are gone and the last one is almost dead. (I just got them last night.) one lasted like three hours, one lasted till morning, and one will probably be gone before I get home which isn't even 24 hours since I bought him. I'd blame the fish store, but it keeps happening. And one puffer came from a different pet store.

what's going wrong? I know the salinity is a tad low, but I can't seem to get it up there. I add a tablespoon of salt, wait a half hour, test, add another tablespoon and wait, but it doesn't go beyond 1.014. but I've been told 1.014 isn't that dangerously low where all my fish should keep dying like this.

especially hardy starter fish. so what's going wrong?

 

[SkiFletch]

Despite what you've been told, 1.014 is a dangerously low salinity for the species you just mentioned. Perhaps the only way to get them to survive at that level would be to drip acclimate them over a very long period of time before adding them to the tank. Even then, I'd have my doubts as to their effectiveness. How big is the tank? How old? Ammonia? Nitrites? Nitrates?

 

[mantis147]

I think you need to put more that a tablespoon of salt in. I would probably add more salt through water changes rather than just adding salt to the tank. It will just sit at the bottom for a while. When you do water changes you dissolve it straight away so you know the water is going to be e.g 1.025.

Thats just my thoughts

Plus the fish you are getting probably came from SG around 1.025 then they are going straight into 1.014 must not do them good.

 

[Aquascaper]

Ok, stop buying fish...........you really need to sit down and research how to look after a marine tank and then prepare the tank before adding anything!

1) You need to get your SG up to between 1.023 and 1.026
2) You need to stabilise your pH to between 8.0 and 8.4
3) You mention Nitrite and Nitrate - What about the big killer Ammonia?
$) How are you filtering the tank?

 

[Opcn]

a tablespoon of salt in 29 gallons is nothing btw. What kind of salt are you useing, you have to use either synthetic or natural marine salt. 1.014 is way too low, some shops will push down to 1.019 or so to keep parasites down in there unhealthy stock but these fish (with the possible exception of the puffer) are not brackish fish.

 

[Chac]

Are you mixing teh salt with water 1st or adding the salt direct to the tank ??


A Tad low really is an understatement, 1.014 is a massive difference and you will need to increase this levels very very slowly

 

[Narutofan]

when I say a tablespoon of salt I'm not saying that that's all there is in the tank. when I set this tank up a month ago I added the salt directly to the gallons of water as I was adding it in. Then I did a water change of 2 gallons and added salt to the two gallons. When the salinity wasn't going up I started adding a tablespoon here and there to see if that would help since water changes and adding more salt through water changes wasn't helping. its not like I filled the tank with water then dipped a dollop of salt and prayed that was enough.

also I'm not an uneducated oaf. I did research the marine life. I've had this tank set up for over a month, I've tested the water every day, I've taken water samples to 3 different aquatics stores to have them test it for me prior to purchasing fish, and they all said the levels were perfect, I research the type of fish, the temp they need, the food they need, and I've asked about how they've been kept and what they've been fed and how they should be acclimated based on their species/age. I ask about how hardy they are, I ask about lighting. I started out the first time around over a year ago without problems until 7 months ago when I bought my first puffer and he died 7 months later. I tore that tank down and started over about a month ago, let it ciruclate, then introduced starter fish which died... but That's why I was so confused about why I can't seem to keep the fish alive all of a sudden.

its not like I just went up and said... ooooo pretty fish I buy now. so don't talk to me like that's what I did. I did everything based on the advice from websites, advice from the aquatics store workers and advice from books. I thought I've done everything by the book to the letter. that's why I'm asking for advice. Not to be told that I'm some uneducated dunce. This isn't my first tank, I had one for over a year a while back before the first puffer incodent.

The water when tested minus the salinity, tested perfect in every other way. Nitrates, Nitrites, Amonia, pH, Salinity was the only thing they couldn't test and told me to test that at home. I called them right away when they sold me a hydrometer to tell them what I got and they said that It should be fine. Just to do a 2 gallon tank change, add salt to the water and reintroduce it then test it again in 30 minutes. I did that twice. Then I added a tablespoon or two directly to the tank after moving the fish to my brother's saltwater sick tank but the salinity still won't go up.

 

[Navarre]

You need to add much more than a tablepoon.
My wife has a 25 gallon nano and when we set this up the sg was at 1.020. I wanted it higher and to get this to 1.024 it took roughly 4 cupfulls of salt (nearly 1/5 of the bg she bought!

To shift that SG to acceptabale levels you will need to add serious amounts of salt. (be aware that your hydrometer might be reading 1.014 yet the true SG could be 1.006 or 7 (they can be very innacurate).

 

[SkiFletch]

Sorry if we came off a little strong... Please understand that plenty of members come around asking similar questions and usually have the "Ooh pretty, buy" attitude and we may have jumped on you a bit. Sorry if that came off as harsh

That being said, raising your salinity is paramount. The real question is though, how large is your tank? Cause if its a 30g you dont have to add much salt, but if its a 100+, you're gonna have to add lots more salt . If you tell us the volume, we can give you an idea of how much you need to add to get your water up to the 1.023 area you need to be at. The basic formula for doing so is realizing that you've got about 60% of the salt you need in there, meaning you have to add another 40%. So if your tank volume is say 100g, you'd probably need to add the equivalent salt of 40% of tank volume (40gal). Most salt mixes are around 1 cup per 2 gallons so that means you'd need to dissolve 20 cups into a small volume of water and do a water change. On the other hand, if your tank is 30gal, you'd need to add the equivalent of 12gal or 6 cups of salt.

Keep in mind, these calculations aren't exact, but at least they will get you close to the value you should need where minor tweaking should help. Hope that sheds some light, and if you're still confused, just post your tank volume and we'll tell you how much salt

 

[Aquascaper]

You still haven't provided details of your filtration system, how you cycled the tank, what substrate you have or how much live rock you have, as you say the tank is only a month old and your water parameters are perfect i'm assuming you must have a fair bit.

To allow us to help we need to know what we're working with.

Also, aside from the LFS advice, i'm curious as to what books and websites said an SG of 1.014 is acceptable to keep marine fish as they really need to be corrected

 

[SkiFletch]

Also, aside from the LFS advice, i'm curious as to what books and websites said an SG of 1.014 is acceptable to keep marine fish as they really need to be corrected

Agreed, methinks unfortunately your LFS might have been trying to make a sale as opposed to giving good advice. I'd avoid their suggestions for the time being

 

[Narutofan]

well I was able to get the salinity up to 1.024, and keep it up there for a few days. The water levels PH, amonia, nitrate, nitrite, test fine, and now the Salinity is right around the right level.

So I got a few small and inexpensive (and not so aggressive) damsels to circulate the water more. For the last going on 48 hours they're all doing fine.

Well all but one. but that one was stressed from the moment he was put in the bag at the store. but he seems to be snapping out of it.

The two really good ones swim like crazy, explore the gaves I made for them, and eat very well. They were eating on their first night (Except for the one. he is eating a little now though.)

So I think the problems are finally solved. but I"m going to wait for a week before I say 100% for sure that everything is fine. but they've lived longer than the recent ones, so hopefully it was the salinity that was a problem.

(Plus I went to a different aquatics store who gave me viable advice that was about the same as I'm getting here.)

 

[@ombomb]

Sorry but this...

So I got a few small and inexpensive (and not so aggressive) damsels to circulate the water more. p

...sounds like a very bad idea.

 

[Aquascaper]

well I was able to get the salinity up to 1.024, and keep it up there for a few days. The water levels PH, amonia, nitrate, nitrite, test fine, and now the Salinity is right around the right level.

What is your definition of 'fine'? Do you actual test results that you could post?
You also say that you kept your SG up @ 1.024 for a few days........does this mean it's fallen again?

 

[Narutofan]

well I was able to get the salinity up to 1.024, and keep it up there for a few days. The water levels PH, amonia, nitrate, nitrite, test fine, and now the Salinity is right around the right level.

What is your definition of 'fine'? Do you actual test results that you could post?
You also say that you kept your SG up @ 1.024 for a few days........does this mean it's fallen again?

no I mean I was able to get it up there and keep it there for a few days WITHOUT it falling. I wanted to make sure I COULD keep it up there without it falling before I even thought of adding fish.

Also I felt it not nessisary to post the water levels because they are the same as the first time I posted. 0 Nitrate 0 nitrite, PH at 8.4 and so on. Plus I had the water tested by the aquatics store where I bought him. they said everything looked great PH wise, and when I told them that my tanks salinity was up to 1.024 they said that would be perfect for their fish which are kept at between 1.020 and 1.026 depending on the fish/tank. These damsels were kept at about 1.022.

All three seem to be doing great now. Even the one that was stressed out. He's eating and swimming like crazy now. Although he doesn't like to be looked at. He hides when I come to the tank to check on them, then comes out and swims when I walk away.

Sorry but this...

So I got a few small and inexpensive (and not so aggressive) damsels to circulate the water more. p

...sounds like a very bad idea.

why? They're doing great, they're eating really well, and while blue chromis are cheaper than other damsels that I've seen, they're hardier and won't kill eachother. (The other damsels I"ve had in the past always attacked eachother especially at mealtime.)

These three seem to share the food fine and don't seem to really bother eachother aggressively. HOw is this a bad idea?