Seeking Advice For My 55g Saltwater Fish + Lr

[LineDropper]

Ok, I have made a few posts and a bunch of you have been helpful. I thought I might organize my info a little better so I can get even more help!

I have a 55 gallon (Top Fin) that I started cycling (w/ fish) on 12/17.

All it has right now is an AquaClear 70 Powerhead, 21lbs of live rock, and Florida Crushed Coral.

Current fish is a Clark's Clownfish I purchased from my LFS.

I just checked my water stats again tonight and this is what I get:

Ph = 8.2
Am = just above 0
Ni = 0
Na = 0
Salinity = 1.023

I'm using treated tap water (Dechlorinator then Instant Ocean)

I had a death the other day when a percula clown fish got caught in my power head (in the intake). So I took the cover off the intake (not sure if there is a good reason for it to be there). So far, the new Clownfish is doing well. He has eaten mysis shrimp and flake food.

I would like advice on what direction to go next w/ a limited budget.

The goal is to have a fish with live rock tank.

Should I use next available fundage for:
* more live rock (LFS has recommended 1lb LR for each gallon)
* RO/DI - I checked out the Melves (spelling?) reef unit and its only 169.
* additional powerhead. I have one going, do I really need another?

Also, I am curious about:
* when can I add some clean up crew? Since I have LR, does the tank have to be totally cycled?
* I am using the standard lights that came with the Top Fin tank, should I upgrade those?
* Should I be checking for any other chemicals in the water?

Finally - I notice a lot of people use sumps. Wished I noticed this before I bought my tank. I can't afford a decent protein skimmer at this point but I could probably get some tubs from WalMart and a pump. Adding more water to the overall system would be beneficial until I could make the sump better. Where would you rank a sump on the priority list above?

Thanks for any comments.

Here are some pics. The stand is 10 feet wide... My end goal is to have another 55g once I get the hang of this and proper equipment. I've had a blast so far.

 

[Allen]

more rock

 

[chrissaysyes]

Go ahead and get an ro/di unit now or you'll keep putting it off. Then get rock, then a new powerhead, which I do think you'll want one more powerhead. Check out tunze turbelle.

 

[1entra]

Defo need more rock and another powerhead for extra water circulation! I would also try to save up for a RO unit!

 

[STD]

Defo need more rock and another powerhead for extra water circulation! I would also try to save up for a RO unit!

Yup Rock, RO unit and more circulation

Presuming your tank is 55 imperial gallons you want to aim for 28kilos of Live rock

I would also aim for a minimum flow of 10 times per hour

 

[Lynden]

Live rock isn't a needed thing, it depends on taste and what the person plans to keep. If you are aiming for the typical "patch reef" (which is little like a real patch reef) then you may want more rock.

 

[STD]

Live rock isn't a needed thing, it depends on taste and what the person plans to keep. If you are aiming for the typical "patch reef" (which is little like a real patch reef) then you may want more rock.

It is needed when as in this set-up it is the sole method of filtration

 

[Musho3210]

more rock, get rid of fish, get rid of top fin filter, add more powerheads. Dont fish cycle please , add live rock, it will cycle, then add fish and cuc, slowly of course.

Oh and STD, it is not needed because ATM it is not the sole filtration in his tank, he does have a filter (albeit a crappy one.....)

 

[Lynden]

How is it "crappy"? Most people fail to realize that there was a day before our super high tech Berlin systems were even invented let alone introduced to America. How do you think they did it back then? Oversized skimmers, Korallias, or hundreds of watts of metal halides? No, they used basic equipment and they were successful... though admittedly it did not look as good as they do now. The point being, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and the most expensive way isn't always the best, or at all necessary.

The live rock that LineDropper has already added is likely enough to eliminate the detrimental effects that would arise from cycling a sterile environment with fish. THe bacteria are probably already established and I would go so far as to suggest that the cycle is already complete.

 

[Musho3210]

you probably have never used a top fin filter.... Mine lasted.... say, i think 3 months? Then the motor failed and wouldnt turn on. Sure you can skin the cat this way, but how good is a failed razor, shear, etc?

seeing that the first fish died after addition, i would assume (again, assumptions, dont make me talk about this again) that the fish died from a serious of unfortunate events due to the unfinished cycle. Seeing that there is very little rock, and not a deep sand bed, and no nitrates, i again assume that the tank is still un-cycled.


About the RO/DI unit, melevs reef is good, but its not 169, its got quite an expensive shipping, the total costs get to about... 200 i think (i bought mine from him). Just make sure you DONT get refills from him, get it from www.twopartsolution.com, about... 20 bucks cheaper. But dont worry about refills until it starts to get dirty.


EDIT: I might have read wrong, looking at that pic, it looks like a penguin/emperor filter.... Not a top fin, my penguin was good, didnt fail on me, the wheel might stop turning if the thing doesnt get enough pressure.

 

[chrissaysyes]

Yup that's more than likely a penguin, not topfin. I've had three of them and only burned up one so far. That wheel could potentially add some extra unfff to your biological filter.

 

[LineDropper]

Yup that's more than likely a penguin, not topfin. I've had three of them and only burned up one so far. That wheel could potentially add some extra unfff to your biological filter.

Thanks for all the comments guys! I love this forum...

My bad decisions have led to some confusion. I visited one of my LFS (Congressional Aquarium) and asked for advice about how to start a saltwater tank. They said its the same as Freshwater but you just do 2x on the filter. They also said you should start with at least a 30g. So I purchased a 30g tank and the Marineland Filter (for 75g) based on their advice. I should have researched more - that was one of many mistakes. I then started asking questions in here and the general consensus was you need at least 55g and it should be 4ft wide. So I returned the tank and upgraded to 55g. Shortly after this, Mr Coral (LFS) opened up very close to my house and I started asking him some questions. He told me LR is the best way to filter your tank and that the Marineland filter I bought would work - but it really isn't a longterm solution (finally, someone is giving me good avice). So this is how I got to where I am today. Yes it is a 55g and yes I do have a Marineland Penguin 350 running but I would like to get up to 55lbs of LR and use that as my filtration. I am about to purchase more in a couple days and should quickly ramp up to 55lbs...

Some things that confuse me are:

1) Musho - you say take the fish out and let the LR cycle. How does LR cycle w/o ammonia??? Honestly, I don't know.

2) As I keep adding LR, if I do frequent water changes -- can my fish survive?

Anyway - thanks for all the info. Appreciate it.

 

[Musho3210]

well if you get LIVE rock, it already contains living bacteria, as well as dying organisms that couldnt survive on the trip from the ocean to your tank, these dying things add the ammonia. Even if the rock doesnt have the dying things, it has bacteria. Most stores sell semi-cured rock, which means theres only a little bit of dying things left, enough to fully cycle your tank, without putting fish at harm. You may be lucky to even find fully cured rock (i never trust it though, many people call their rock fully cured but its really just semi-cured) which has no dying things, but lots of bacteria, which would instantly cycle your tank.

Since you already have fish, you can just cure the rock outside of the tank in a separate container, look for cured rock, and just as a preventative cure it again yourself, shouldnt take long, when the rock is done curing, add it to your tank. Again, try and find the most cured rock you can, the best way to find out is to sniff the container it is in, if it smells rotten, it is probably uncured, if it smells ocean-like without that rotten egg, it is probably cured or near cured.

Incase you didnt know, cured is rock that has no more dying life on it which means it wont spike ammonia. Uncured is the opposite, a lot of dying life.

For now, test daily or every other day, if there is ammonia or nitrite, you may want to do a small water change (10-15%), there probably wont be much which is good since its only one small fish in a big tank, but dont add any more fish yet until either A. your filter is filled with bacteria, or B. You get some cured live rock in there.

And for future notice, in case someone asks you, there is no "good" tank size to start or minimum etc. The bigger the tank the easier it is to maintain water quality, but then again it may cost more, making people unhappy and leaving the hobby due to a small wallet. I started with a 20 gallon nano, and its great.... Seeing that we have some spare change, we are planning an upgrade.

 

[chrissaysyes]

While I agree that there is no GOOD starting size for marine, if there were then I would say 30 gallons. I personally started with a 14 and found it too difficult and restricting for me as a beginner. I soon upgraded to a 30 gallon and it was perfect for learning the hobby. I think you made a good choice with that size.

2x the filtration is kind of a sketchy statement. You could essentially get away (and probably thrive) with no mechanical filtration. Running just a 30g tank with live sand, enough (rule of thumb is usually 1.5/2lbs per gallon) live rock, and plenty of flow would work very well and have sufficient filtration, especially for a FOWLR tank. It's when you get into more crucial water quality standards due to more demanding livestock that you need the machines...I have found that on my large reef tank that my personal preference is running no mechanical filtration aside from my skimmer.

and btw, adding LR as you go (if that's what you meant) while keeping fish or inverts in the tank is fine as long as the LR is cured. If you're getting the LR from a near by LFS and it's not being transfered out of water then you'll be perfectly fine adding it to the tank while you have livestock. It's when you get the LR out of water and flow for long periods of time that you start to get die-off and could potentially have a mini (if not full on) cycle on your hands.

 

[jeasko]

One thing I would like to point out is that while alot of people rave on about you dont need skimmer or filter when just running FOWLR i would tend to say if your dont have a sump setup then a skimmer will do you a world of good with very little downside, all it will do is help remove impurities your filtration cannot pick up and help reduce algae and cynobacteria (it wont cure either of them but will help) having said that there is no better way to maintain water quality than to do regular water changes and monitor water quality, then take whatever action is required.

as for flow really there is no upper limit the higher the better usually, as for CUC i would tend to say they are hardier than livestock so if your water parameters are acceptable start adding them slowly as lets be honest if the clown is doing fine the CUC will be fine, besides your CUC will not add much to your bio loading.

With regards to cured LR if you regularly use a reputable LFS they will be able to tell you how long the rock has been curing in thier tanks, i personally dont touch anything that hasnt been there for atleast 4-5 weeks unless it was cured before they got it (not normal due to cost) and as musho said in a previous post the smell is the biggest give away