Running An F8 Tank At A Salinity Lower Than 1.005?

[Revision17]

I just finished planting a 30 gallon tall aquarium with the following plants:
Bacopa monnieri
Crinum calamistratum
Hygrophila difformis
Red Tiger Lotus
Vallisneria nana
Java Fern
Java Moss

It has two figure 8 puffers in it at the moment. I cycled it with freshwater since that what they kept the F8s and plants in at the store (and it still is freshwater... gonna bring it up to 1.001 after a water change this weekend). Now, all the plants are in the 1.005 SG or less category in the sticky thread, however elsewhere on the internet places list 1.003 as being better.

Would it hurt the puffers if I ran the tank at 1.004 or if I fluctuated it between 1.003 and 1.005 with water changes?

 

[nmonks]

No harm at all; indeed, if SG 1.003 is easier on your plants and cheaper to run in terms of allowing you bigger water changes per week, then go for it. Do try not to nudge the SG above 1.005 though as that seems to be the turning point for plants and to some degree filter bacteria. So variations from SG 1.004 downwards are fine, but upwards, not recommended.

Cheers, Neale

Would it hurt the puffers if I ran the tank at 1.004 or if I fluctuated it between 1.003 and 1.005 with water changes?

 

[jennybugs]

Good luck with your plants! I had a fail of epic dimensions with brackish and live plants - lighting wasn't good enough. I've gone silk and faux mangrove root now and am happy

I look forward to pics of your F8s...be nice to compare them to my two

 

[Revision17]

I figured I'd give this a bit of a bump since there aren't too many posts about brackish planted tanks. The SG has been at 1.003 for the past two weeks. One of the skinnier not so healthy looking F8s I got is now not so skinny and healthy looking. Hopefully it plumps up a bit more. I'm feeding the puffers frozen bloodworms now, but I'm planning on switching to some kind of shelly frozen food once they're done with the bloodworms (maybe mysis?). Supposedly F8s don't have as much of a problem with beak overgrowth as other puffers do (going by random forum people).

As for the plants... I'm using a 250 watt metal halide lamp with a 20k bulb at the moment. I kinda want to switch it for a 6700K.. but I can't justify throwing away a perfectly good bulb for asthetics. Some people on forums say it encourages algae.. but I'm not sure how much I belive that since I've never seen experiments done (nor seen any references). I've got DIY CO2 plumbed into the canister filter's intake... at around ~17PPM according to the drop checker. Thinking of adding another 2 liter bottle to the (to increase from 2 2 liter bottles to 3) system to maybe push to 25PPM or so. I'm also dosing flourish excel. I had hoped to not use CO2 actually (and just keep the halide 3 feet above the tank... it's the only good light I have and this tank is in my office so I'm not paying for power)... but I introduced rhizoclonium on the java moss I was growing in a paludarium and that started getting out of hand.

Plant status:
Bacopa monnieri: Most successful out of all the plants at the moment. Nice pearling and about 3" of growth per week in the past 2 weeks (I measured with sticky notes on the back of the tank).
Crinum calamistratum: Leaves melted away shortly after it was introduced. Was surviving, but becoming a rhizoclonium magnet. I yanked it out last night and am attempting to grow it emerse to keep it alive till the bacopa is more dominant.
Hygrophila difformis: Plenty healthy... not a rhizoclonium magnet.. however it's not really growing at all.
Red Tiger Lotus: Second most successful plant. At first about half the leaves melted away.. but a bunch of new ones are sprouting up now. Very pretty.
Vallisneria nana: Growing very little.. might be stressed due to the excel dosing. Wouldn't have purchased it if I knew it was sensitive to excel.
Java Fern: Yanked since it became a rhizoclonium magnet.. growing emerse with the crinum calamistratum now.
Java Moss: Yanked since it rhizoclonium and I introduced rhizoclonium into the tank in the first place on it. Chillin in a tank I'm using to soak driftwood in. Also introduced rhizoclonium into that tank as well. Doh! I'll probably bleach and dechlorinate that wood before sticking it in the F8 tank.
Water Sprite (missed it in the first list): wasn't growing terribly well till this weekend.. then in it almost doubled in size.

I'm thinking of lowering the SG via water changes over the next few weeks to see if I can get some of the plants growing faster (particularly the hygrophila difformis.. which should be growing reasonably rapidly). I want to get my hands on some hornwort.. all the places near me have been out of stock for months (but I just called one place and they finally got it!).

Kinda wish the puffers wouldn't tear amano shrimp to shreds.

 

[jennybugs]

Amano shrimp are a nice expensive meal for the puffs

Mine eat live bloodworm (and frozen) live clams with the shells crushed so the fish have to chomp on the shells a bit to wear their beaks down - they will get overgrown if you don't give them hard crunchy things to eat - snails, raw shell on prawns and live river shrimp, and they also like earthworms and waxworms too.

One of mine is very round of belly and the other a bit more slender but they are healthy. I wouldn't trust mine with anything other than the gobies whom they seemingly ignore - at least they do at the moment.

Any pics of your set up please? Sounds interesting!

 

[Revision17]

Sure.. I'll post a couple pictures tomorrow when I get to the office. Tank's not scaped at the moment... just trying to get the plants all settled in and growing (and off the algae).

I actually bought some hornwort today and chucked it in. Hopefully it'll do well and depress the growth rhizoclonium and diatoms some more.

When I buy the live clams from the supermarket do I have to soak them in water or anything before I chuck them in? I guess I'll make a trip to the supermarket to pick up some shell on shrimp to see what they have in the way of shrimp/prawns. If the puffers can't eat em all I suppose I'll just have to broil 'em and eat them myself. I'm guessing frozen shell on shrimp would work as well (I'm kind of a fan of my puffers just eating human food leftovers.. more efficient use of scarce freezer space).

EDIT: I see from your sig that you're a malaysian trumpet snail sufferer. What's your take on the whole "don't give puffers MTSes or they'll break thier beaks on them" thing? I was thinking introducing a few MTSes to this tank could allow a hassle free way of getting the puffers to work out thier beaks, while still somewhat providing a home for the MTSes under the substrate.

 

[jennybugs]

The MTS in my sig means Multiple Tank Syndrome

I did have MTS in my F8 tank to turn the sand over but the F8s sucked all the snails out of their shells leaving me with none! I do agree that the MTS are too tough for F8s to crack open. Someone I knew actually crushed the snails in their shells before throwing them in the tank with the idea that the shell parts would wear the beaks down. No idea if it worked but the puffs ate the snails anyway

 

[Hayleamorgan]

Come on.. Where are the pics??
We wanna see!

 

[Revision17]

The tank as of this weekend:

Not looking so great at the moment. This is the tank without light for the past week or so. I removed the halide to put on my reef tank at home. It has 2x24 watt t5s on it now. This was the original plan anyway... I just didn't want to have an MH running under my computer desk... I wanted to wait to move my reef to the living room... oh well. MH was just too intense with DIY CO2 and excel.

SG is now 1.002 since the puffers aren't among us anymore (see blow)... just been doing water changes with freshwater.

Comparing this picture to the tank now.. hornwort sure does grow fast!

The bad:
I came to the office one morning, and one of the puffs jumped out a little hole I had in the back. So a few days later I went to home depot to buy the materials to construct an ugly yet functional no jump fish lid. When I got back I saw two dead puffers on the floor . They BOTH jumped within hours of one another out of a smallish area in the back not covered by glass.

Taking advantage of this tragedy, I got 4 amano shrimp to help with the rhizoclonium. 3 of them died overnight. One is still alive.

The good:
I'm finally winning against rhizoclonium and other algae. I don't see any new growth really. Just have to eradicate what's there. I've started squirting the rhizoclonium with hydrogen peroxide, but it doesn't seem terribly effective. It IS cool that H2O2 injection makes everything start instantly pearling from all the O2. It might be a neat trick to dump a few mls of HO2O2 into a planted show tank when company is going to visit.

I also started majorly overdosing excel after the 3 amanos died (I thought all of them had died). Last one lived through a few days of this (didn't see him for awhile)... probably going to continue, but just not as much.

The red tiger lotus, moneywort and hortwort are doing well. The vals.. not so much. Rhizoclonium seems to like them (not as much as say Hygrophila difformis though, and it doesn't seem to kill them), but I'll just let them stick it out through H2O2 and excel treatment rather than removing them.


Todo:

Rearrange wood once plants recover from being without decent light for a week.
Replant plants to the new wood arrangement.
KILL THE ALGAE! ESPECIALLY YOU RHIZOCLONIUM!
Find some new inhabitants. Maybe wait until after I'm done scaping and the system is more mature. Hopefully something that doesn't jump.


It's funny... for the past year and a quarter (my whole time in this hobby)... I've always had lidless tanks (except this tank) and never once had a fish jump. Everyone who saw the tanks always said fish jump... never an issue. Now since I kinda liked these puffers, I put a glass lid on which covered 90% of the top (minus a bit for canister filter tubing. And they jumped...... lame.

 

[Hayleamorgan]

Ooo How sad!! Im so sorry for your loss!! Little puffs

You have def gotta get some more, Just cover the hole first!!

Keep us updated!!

xxx

 

[TylerFerretLord]

That's a shame.

If you don't plan to go with puffers again I think that would make an amazing shrimp tank, but I'm biased.

 

[Hayleamorgan]

That's a shame.

If you don't plan to go with puffers again I think that would make an amazing shrimp tank, but I'm biased.

As am i!!

 

[jennybugs]

Oh what a sad thing to hear about your poor puffs!

You say the tank isn't looking all that at the moment but I think it looks lovely!