So this will be my first tank for a very long time. So my first question regarding substrate. What are peoples thoughts on the one inch of soil topped with two inch of sand. I realise this is a "Father Fish" idea and his opinions devide people. But as an idea for substrate, does it work?
Returning after 43 year Hiatus
- Thread starter Ian1357
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My experience on this substrate idea is limited to one tank. The one difference is that I used a fine gravel rather than sand. I had great plant growth but did encounter a lot of Cyanobacteria leeching through the soil layer to the cap. Luckily it never reached above the top layer and didn’t smother the plants like some others have had.
I'm not a fan ( long term ) of substrate that deep... long term anaerobic areas... BTW, I was out of the hobby for 30 years, been back for 3 years now
Dirted tanks were around a long time before Father Fish on youtube. They're quite an old idea - I did one 30 years ago and they weren't a new idea then.
Before moving forward, look at treating/prepping that soil - a big part of successful use of dirted tanks. I've only done it once, and undid it rather quickly. I realized the fish I like dig, and that would have gone very wrong very quickly.
But there is enough on the prep you'd need. A lot of youtubers oversimplify to get their vids into the attention span range.
Before moving forward, look at treating/prepping that soil - a big part of successful use of dirted tanks. I've only done it once, and undid it rather quickly. I realized the fish I like dig, and that would have gone very wrong very quickly.
But there is enough on the prep you'd need. A lot of youtubers oversimplify to get their vids into the attention span range.
What do you hope to gain by using a soil base…..other than the production of mud?
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For me it's a layer of dense nutrients for plants to feed on, usually resulting in great growth. But it does have its drawbacks
The problem is that if you keep your aquarium setup for a long time is the dirt will eventually be exhausted (I can't say how long); furthermore at least for myself i find that plants grow quite well without dirt so why add additional complexity. There is a whole science around aquatic plants and nutrients - for example too much one nutrient will cause starvation of another and very acidic water will increase (soft water) plants ability to uptake minerals. There is a huge amount of information that makes the issue for more complex then simply adding dirt. This is an aquarium with total inert substrate from may 2023 to nov 2024 (so 17 months):
While there is almost no minerals in the water the plants do get the benefit of extreme acidity (ec 20 ph ~5).
I do use root tabs now and then but the substrate itself is totally inert. The sad thing is that even modest light suppression from leaves can severely hamper or even kill plants.
While there is almost no minerals in the water the plants do get the benefit of extreme acidity (ec 20 ph ~5).
I do use root tabs now and then but the substrate itself is totally inert. The sad thing is that even modest light suppression from leaves can severely hamper or even kill plants.
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Mixing different types of substrate doesn't work well. Sand on top of other substrate generally means the sand will fall through the gaps and you get a mess that isn't sand and isn't the underlying substrate. Just try to stay with one kind of substrate.
Most aquatic plants take in most of the nutrients they require via their leaves. Aponogetons, Echinodorus, Cryptocorynes and water lilies/ lotus will take in nutrients via their roots but they can also take it in from their leaves (less so with the lilies/ lotus. If you use a liquid aquarium plant fertiliser, it should provide everything the plants need without having to use mud in the bottom.
Most aquatic plants take in most of the nutrients they require via their leaves. Aponogetons, Echinodorus, Cryptocorynes and water lilies/ lotus will take in nutrients via their roots but they can also take it in from their leaves (less so with the lilies/ lotus. If you use a liquid aquarium plant fertiliser, it should provide everything the plants need without having to use mud in the bottom.
Returning to the hobby after a long break must be intriguing - you'll know a lot but have missed a lot that has gone on. None of it changes the world, but it does change how we try things.
Diana Walstad did a book a ways back in which she approached the whole question of planted tanks in a very rigorous, thought out fashion. Since then, we've had a lot of half digested approaches, as the approach has been simplified and rendered almost magical by some. Father Fish is the latest and among the most oversimplified of the sort, and his approach is doing damage. We used to debate on another forum before he became a guru, and he would never answer a direct question about basic approaches. If it didn't fit his vision, he wouldn't answer it. His is a very faith based approach, although he has his followers.
I'd go back to the science if I were you. There is a lot of value in the dirted tank approach, as long as the fish don't come first in your vision. If plants are what you're into, then it can be an enjoyable approach. If you like the Corydoras group, loaches, Cichlids or other substrate oriented groups, it's probably best to give it a pass.
Aquarists haven't changed since you left the hobby. We all have completely different answers depending on what we focus on, and sometimes we're all right because of that. If we sit down and talk, we can see the differences in approaches that fuel the different answers, but online, typing short answers, it takes time to figure out who is doing what well, and why.
For the type of tank you seem to be considering, @MattW is a good info source.
Diana Walstad did a book a ways back in which she approached the whole question of planted tanks in a very rigorous, thought out fashion. Since then, we've had a lot of half digested approaches, as the approach has been simplified and rendered almost magical by some. Father Fish is the latest and among the most oversimplified of the sort, and his approach is doing damage. We used to debate on another forum before he became a guru, and he would never answer a direct question about basic approaches. If it didn't fit his vision, he wouldn't answer it. His is a very faith based approach, although he has his followers.
I'd go back to the science if I were you. There is a lot of value in the dirted tank approach, as long as the fish don't come first in your vision. If plants are what you're into, then it can be an enjoyable approach. If you like the Corydoras group, loaches, Cichlids or other substrate oriented groups, it's probably best to give it a pass.
Aquarists haven't changed since you left the hobby. We all have completely different answers depending on what we focus on, and sometimes we're all right because of that. If we sit down and talk, we can see the differences in approaches that fuel the different answers, but online, typing short answers, it takes time to figure out who is doing what well, and why.
For the type of tank you seem to be considering, @MattW is a good info source.
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