Reed Fish Ill

[Astarin]

Tank size: 200L
pH: 7
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: trace

Not sure of hardness, our water is pretty soft here
tank temp:was 24C moved to 29C slowly

Fish Symptoms: Our reed fish seem to have come out in small bumps all across their body, started in a small patch and spread quickly to all 4 reed fish in the tank. They seem quite agitated by whatever has hit them but are not having trouble breathing I believe. One of them keeps yawning.. or at least opening his mouth very wide occasionally. One of the geophagus seems to have a few white spots on its body, but none on fins. Waterlife protozin seems to be having no effect and it is still spreading rapidly up the fishes bodies.

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 10% water change every week

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: Fully cycled with 2 filters with carbon ( carbon taken out because I originally thought whitespot)

Tank inhabitants: Several species of gourami, 2 Geophagus, 5 black red tail sharks and 3 angel fish, along with the 4 African reed fish. I did a lot of research before buying them, a lot of people said they would be ok together but occasionally someone says theyre a bad mixture, I just dont know what to believe and they do all seem to get along with each other.)

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): The only recent additions we had were 3 weeks ago which were the 2 geophagus and 2 golden gouramis

Exposure to chemicals: Waterlife Protozin was added because I originally thought it was white spot

Digital photo : The two big white spots are not on the fish, must be the glass... they're hard to get a good photo of

Hopefully someone can help, they are definitely my favourite fish in the tank.

 

[indigoj]

Not 100% certain but I class reedfish as sensitive and I don't use meds with my reeds other than Esha (that is considered 'safe' for sensitive fish) so I'd be tempted to remove the protozin with carbon, increase oxygen too as you raise the temperature.
Did their symptoms start before or after adding the meds?

You also sound very heavily stocked for 200l so they could be stressed.

 

[Astarin]

The spots and agitated state started before I added the medication. And I actually never thought about it being overstocked, it seems like such a bare tank even with those fish in. I'm also tempted myself to remove the protozin as it seems to have had absolutely no effect at all, it spread rapidly between the reed fish, (no other fish are showing the same spots apart from the geophagus, and they don't look the same at all).

I've actually just quarantined the geophagus as if they actually have something else and its a coincidence they do have white spot I do not want that to spread.

Thank you for the feed back.

 

[indigoj]

Hmmmm...

Could anything have contaminated the water? That wouldn't show on tests - perfume, household products, alcohol etc?

 

[england]

as said sounds abit over stocked, but reading show good, 5 black redtailed sharks in a tank that small is probally a disaster waiting to happen..
iam thinking velvet diesease
http/hubpages.com/hub/velvet-disease-rust-disease-gold-dust-disease

 

[england]

 

[Astarin]

Nelly: Thank you for reply. I also thought maybe velvet, the protozin also treats velvet and has had no effect at all. The spots look more like small pimples. They do stick out from the fish ever so slightly. I am wondering if it is maybe a stress reaction to overstocking the tank?

Indigoj: I'm not to sure about contaminating the tank. They're actually my brothers fish, he's the one who would clean it. I will ask when he gets home. Also, is Esha an american brand? because I have never seen it before in the stores in the UK.

On a note though. I did think the geophagus had whitespot or some kind of parasite. However, upon moving the fish to a quarantine tank. The spots have disappeared almost instantly. I am quite shocked by this, I guess maybe it was just a pattern on the fish that might have appeared because of raising the temperature? There was no clear pattern to the spots and assumed after seeing white spot once before that it was Ick.

Thank you for the replies, I do appreciate it.

Astarin

 

[indigoj]

Esha is a UK med but not all shops and as far as I know not the major 'chains' stock it - I get it from ebay or recently my local garden centre has started stocking it.

From the reaction of the new fish I'd be thinking stress as the cause of any other symptoms (which can inlcude disease such as velvet etc.)

I'd be thinking hard about the stocking - what fish exactly and how many of each are in there? Also I'm definitely no expert on geophagus but I didn't think there were any small enouth to live in 200l? certainly the reed fish need more. What are the tanks dimensions? I appreciate this could be difficult to consider if they are not strictly your fish.

 

[Astarin]

Indigoj: The Geophagus are small right now, about 10cm in length. I think my brother thinks it is very understocked just because most of the tank seems empty when your not standing next to it. when you are next to it they all come out begging for food in seconds.

As for dimensions its a 4foot, by 2foot 1/2, by 2foot 1/2.

I believe there are 4 reed fish (not fully mature), 3 Pearl Gourami, 2 paradise fish, 2 Geophagus, 5 Black tail red sharks (also not mature), 2 golden gourami and 3 angel fish. There's 1 shrimp somewhere in there too. None of the fish are fully mature. There's also lots of hiding spots and live plants.

If it comes to it, I have a 60 litre tank that could hold some of the smaller fish and we do have a third 80litre tank I think it is which currently houses 2 small lizards which have a very spacious life.

I think what I will tell my brother to do is put the carbon back in the filters, and perhaps turn on the new UV Sterilizer. I understand the sterilizer wouldn't necessarily get rid of all parasites and bacteria if it is indeed a disease but it would maybe alleviate it a little? I will wait till brother gets home, the reed fish don't seem in dire need, just agitated, no matter how much I hate to see them like that

Thanks again.

Edit: forgot to say. I do find it odd that the same symptoms are not appearing in other fish, this could be a way of showing stress in reed fish or something that may only affect reed fish alone.? It's so hard to diagnose something I've never seen before .

 

[indigoj]

with those dimensions it's much bigger than 200l! If they are accurate then think 600l+ and the stocking is fine LOL.

 

[Astarin]

Well then! I did think it was bigger but that's just what I was told it was. It would also mean I have been greatly under medicating if that is the case. I have ordered some Esha 2000 and Exit, hopefully the 2000 will do the job

 

[Astarin]

Hmmm I think it may actually be overstocked. I measured the tank myself instead of taking what my brother said and it calculates to be 255 litres. So I think it may well be over stocked. it is 4 foot long but not as wide or deep as I thought. It would still mean I have been undermedicating if so. I will try the Esha when it arrives though. Sorry for the misinformation.

 

[indigoj]

Good Luck!

Some pics of the whole tank would be nice.

255l means the stocking does need reconsidering once the existing problems are resolved. If most of the fish are very young you have some time to sort it out.

""I believe there are 4 reed fish (not fully mature) - these can reach 3ft though 2ft more common in captivity , 3 Pearl Gourami, 2 paradise fish - generally seen as a cool water fish , 2 Geophagus - what type? some reach 12" , 5 Black tail red sharks (also not mature) - very likely to fight as they mature , 2 golden gourami and 3 angel fish - get fairly large and 3 could be trouble if 2 pair up. There's 1 shrimp somewhere in there too - may have been eaten. None of the fish are fully mature. There's also lots of hiding spots and live plants. ""

 

[Astarin]

The reed fish are al better, spots dissapeared over night all of a sudden. We are still going to have to think about the overstocking however. We gave the reed fish more places to hide in the form of a rock maze, and they seem to love it.

 

[indigoj]

Excellent, that's good to hear on all counts.

Trust me it is worth you upgrading the tank to as big as you can, my reedfish are so active (I've a group of 5 ranging from about 10" to about 16") and love the free swimming space as mich as the wood tangle.