Red Sea Flora Base substrate

[rdd1952]

I am considering changing my substrate in my 29 gallon from play sand to something a little better for plants. I just can't seem to get plants to grow in the play sand plus I'm constantly fighting angae while my plants do nothing. I have Eco Complete in my 75 gallon and love it. I have looked at the Flora Base and like the color and look of it. One of the LFS nearby has 2 or 3 display tanks set up with it and they look great. It's not sand but does look to be mainly round pellets so it looks like something corys or other bottom feeders could handle. Eco Complete is pretty rough and so I don't think the corys would like it (I have corys in the 75 gallon but there is about an inch of Tahitian Moon sand over the Eco Complete).

Edit: Also, why do companied that make gravel products not show the contects of the bag in cubic feet on the bag rather than "For 10 gallon tank". It would make things so much easier if they said "Contents: xxx cubic feet". Then we could do some simple maths and figure out exactly how many bags we need for our tank. I guess it's so we will buy more than we need.

 

[rdd1952]

I actually started this thread back in May and never got a reply so I'm bumping it back to the top for another try. I am definitely going to have to change the substrate now and am trying to decide if Red Sea Flora Base is worthwhile. I have searched TFF and there really isn't much on here about it other than 2 people that say they have used it. My other option is Tahitian Moon Sand but I'm sure Flora Base will be much better for the plants.

 

[George Farmer]

I am curious as to their claim that it buffers the water pH 6.5 to 7. Maybe worth investigating that furthur, I wonder if it has a high phosphate content. I would be interested to know how it could for instance, lower a tap pH of 8 - phosphates are the only method I know of to buffer water to a set level.

Substrate choice is important but perhaps not as vital as some give credit. Lighting, CO2 and fertilisation are most important factors for success with plants. Without providing these in the correct quantities and balance then the substrate is near enough redundant.

My next project will have a very basic and cheap substrate. If one keeps the water column rich in nutrients then the plants need little substrate fertilisation, possible exceptions being gross feeders i.e. swords and crypts.

edit - I've sent Red Sea a message. I'll let you know the response.

"FloraBase will also act as a pH buffer, maintaining a stable pH between 6.5 and 7.0, which is ideal for almost all aquatic plants."

How is this acheived exactly? The only method I'm familiar with to buffer pH is by using phosphate based compounds.

Regards

 

[rdd1952]

Thanks for the reply. I'd be interested in the answer too. Also, I wonder how long that effect would last. Obviously, it's effect on pH shouldn't last forever unless the substrate is some type time-release thing that dissolves over time and that's not good either since you eventually wouldn't have any substrate left.

 

[zig]

Hey rdd

I remember that thread, i didnt know much about it back then but later i found it in my local garden centre that has a fish section (and your thread jogged my memory) and i decided to check it out and did some research on it a while back, but that stuff isnt cheap not over here anyway thats why i looked into it further to see if it was better than the laterite i was (am) useing.

I dont know how it buffers the water i was curious about that as well, anyway from people that have used this product the feedback wasnt good at all, nearly all of them complained that it degraded quite quickly (in less than a year) and basically turned to a mush, a messy mush, which if disturbed by replanting etc would give up a brown dust and cover all the other plants in the tank in the process and if you have any fish that like digging then its not the substrate for you. Its also very light and people had problems with planting and keeping stuff down in the substrate.

Here what Tom Barr had to say about it some time back.

Seems to be the same to me, Luis and I talked about it, after a year or so, mush, I want something that last forever at 12-30$ a bag.

Onyx sand is still the best thing I've used so far.

I've had it for several years, heavy, fine grained, nice color, easy to plant things in it, adds some KH/GH to soft waters (better to have more than less), easier to uproot large plants like swords than Flourite, less inclined to get hair algae on the grains than EC, FB, Flourite, will never turn to mush.

FB works well, looks decent, but it's no better IMO than Turface which is 8-12$ for 50lbs and last forever. Same color and the same light weight. 50lbs of turface is a lot also.

Mixed with sand will reduce the lightness. But still turns to mush....
Some might not mind the mush and replacement cost.
Amano claims his does not turn to mush but it's the same stuff. We will see. I and some others are using it. It has NH4 in it(the ADA stuff). That will be turned into NO3 soon after the tank cycles.

Anyway i never bothered pursueing it after i read that and i still use the laterite, sounds like the Turface mixed with sand is a much better option if you are in the states.

gf have you ever checked out cat litter, i believe some of them are suitable for planted tanks and are literally dirt cheap, its also light weight and you could mix it with sand to give it some volume.

 

[George Farmer]

gf have you ever checked out cat litter

[snapback]925530[/snapback]​

Yes. I clean out my neighbour's cats when they go away

Seriously though, I have yes. I've probably checked out every possibly substrate there is commonly available. I'm impressed with my Dennerle Deponit but I can't help thinking I could get away with a lot cheaper now I'm EI dosing.

 

[rdd1952]

Thanks to both of you for the replys. I probably will go with the Tahitian Moon Sand. I really like th dark substrate anyway and it doesn't cloud the water at all when you plant or move stuff around. I may check out the onyx sand too as my tap water has KH of 1. I could use a little buffering capacity. I currently keep a very small amount of crushed coral hanging in the tanks to help with the KH. It raises it to around 4 or 5 which is fine for the fish I have.

 

[littleimp]

I believe these substrates raise the PH as the sand has probably a high calcium carbonate volume which in turn raises the KH which then raises the PH.

 

[rdd1952]

I think your right about the Flora Base but Carib Sea's website says that the TMS does not affect pH.

 

[George Farmer]

I believe these substrates raise the PH as the sand has probably a high calcium carbonate volume which in turn raises the KH which then raises the PH.

Red Sea claim that their substrate buffers the pH 6.5 - 7 - in which case Calcium carbonate cannot be the source. Water with any CaCO3 content will be above pH 7, assuming there are no other acids present.

rdd1952 - I still haven't had a response from Red Sea for your interest. Not a good sign.

 

[rdd1952]

rdd1952 - I still haven't had a response from Red Sea for your interest. Not a good sign.

You would think they would respond within a week for sure. It's fine though. I decided on the Tahitian Moon Sand and actually just bought it (along with a new betta - couldn't help myself) at lunch. It would be nice to hear from them anyway though, just so we knew.