Red Fin Shark...has He Lost The Plot?

[Hammystaff]

Hi,
Our Red Fin Shark is behaving very oddly. We cleaned the tank out yesterday, whilst they were in the holding tank he was at the top of the water the whole time. Once we returned him to the cleaned tank, his behaviour patterns have altered completely. He always spent most of his time inside "his" rock, only coming out to strut around the tank and keep all the other fish in line. But, now he is floating, vertically, head down! When he decides to go somewhere, he can swim normally, but then he stops and floats, head down, for ages!
Also, our Siamese Fighting Fish has started attacking him. The Siamese is almost stalking him around the tank!
I am really worried that he is dying. All the other fish in the tank are fine after the clean.
We also have a medium Angel Fish, 2 Guppies, 5 Tetras, 2 Mollies, the Siamese, and 2 little green and orange fish that I can't recall the name of right now!! and a god awfully ugly Loach!!
Any suggestions or advice will be most appreciated,
Thanks

 

[WILDER]

Size of tank in gallons or litres, plus water stats in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,and ph, can you say what you cleaned in the tank, once a fish head stands sad to say not good news.

Headstanding, laying flat
Water quality problems, drug side effects, swimbladder infection, intestinal obstruction, late stage of infectious diseases

 

[Hammystaff]

Size of tank in gallons or litres, plus water stats in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,and ph, can you say what you cleaned in the tank, once a fish head stands sad to say not good news.

Headstanding, laying flat
Water quality problems, drug side effects, swimbladder infection, intestinal obstruction, late stage of infectious diseases

The tank was cleaned normally, old water chucked, gravel rinsed in clean water, a third of the old water was replaced into the new water. No cleaning fluids or anything were used, it was just wiped. The tank is 60 litres.
No idea regarding ammonia, ph etc but all the other fish are hunky dory. The temperature in the tank is 26, as it always is.

 

[WILDER]

12 gal then red tailed finned shark needs 40gal tanks, plus angels need 30gals, you should never clean the gravel in clean water you are removing the beneifical bacteria, you need to buy a gravel vac, check the begiiner pinned topic out, and also i would advise strongly of rehomeing the shark and angel, it sounds like bad water quality.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showforum=58

 

[Hammystaff]

Why would a shop sell me the Angel knowing the size of my tank, if the tank is so awful for them, and, why have they all been perfectly fine til now, bearing in mind all the other fish are still perfectly fine, when they have been in this tank for months now?
I took the shark as a rehome over 2 months ago.

 

[Saedcantas]

1. Some shops knowingly sell fish to go in wholly unsuitable tanks because of lovely money Some shop staff will completely unknowingly do it because they are oblivious to facts

2. My favourite gem is the "how come the new(er) fish died when the others are all perfectly happy???" Simple, the fish you already have are all used to tolerating the conditions in your tank whatever they may be, a relatively new fish will not be.

3. I actually think the headstanding and odd swimming probably came secondarily to the stress of being attacked by other fish than the other way around
Your tank is essentially completely uncycled with no beneficial nitrifying bacteria to speak of. Therefore between your water changes huge amounts of ammonia (which is of course toxic) will be building up before a big dilution takes place. This is not a good way to keep fish happy or healthy.

The betta attacking the shark perhaps stressed it enough initially to cause it to become more susceptable to problems caused by your no doubt poor water quality

Read up in the basics of the Nitrogen cycle, I honestly believe there is no more important piece of knowledge in fishkeeping than understanding of the Nitrogen cycle in your fishtank.

 

[Hammystaff]

1. Some shops knowingly sell fish to go in wholly unsuitable tanks because of lovely money Some shop staff will completely unknowingly do it because they are oblivious to facts

2. My favourite gem is the "how come the new(er) fish died when the others are all perfectly happy???" Simple, the fish you already have are all used to tolerating the conditions in your tank whatever they may be, a relatively new fish will not be.

3. I actually think the headstanding and odd swimming probably came secondarily to the stress of being attacked by other fish than the other way around
Your tank is essentially completely uncycled with no beneficial nitrifying bacteria to speak of. Therefore between your water changes huge amounts of ammonia (which is of course toxic) will be building up before a big dilution takes place. This is not a good way to keep fish happy or healthy.

The betta attacking the shark perhaps stressed it enough initially to cause it to become more susceptable to problems caused by your no doubt poor water quality

Read up in the basics of the Nitrogen cycle, I honestly believe there is no more important piece of knowledge in fishkeeping than understanding of the Nitrogen cycle in your fishtank.

The Shark came into the tank at the same time as the Siamese Fighter, the Loach and the Guppies. We took them all from a friend who had them in a tank half the size of ours with water like mud in it. As mentioned, we have had them for between 2 and 3 months now.
We had previously had just Mollies in ours, plus a few Tetras. We had been taking Mollies back to the shop in bagfuls because they were breeding like rabbits. Which we were told they wouldn't do in poor water quality?
We bought the Angel and the 2 small green and orange fish, that I still can't recall the name of, a month or so ago.
This is the first time the tank has been cleaned since we got the Shark and co, and I think he was just scared crapless by being netted and put in the holding tank.
Today, I hope you'll be pleased to hear, he is fine. No more head standing, he's back in his rock and is not being harassed by the Siamese any more.

 

[Saedcantas]

Green and orange fish?

 

[Hammystaff]

Green and orange fish?

YES!! That's the one
I take it from the link it's called a tiger barb?
Thank you We have 2 of them, Sherman and Challenger, they are cracking little chaps, so much personality!

 

[WILDER]

They need larger tank to barbs, as they are active fish and fin nippers.

 

[Saedcantas]

It is indeed a green phase tiger barb, they really do best in groups of 5-6 or more since that way aggression is spread between their own kind rather than directed towards all of your other fish

Please do check out the basics regarding ongoing "little and often" maintainance of fishtanks, it is the best way to ensure your fish are healthy and happy, big cleanouts that involve holding tanks are stressful and unnecessary

 

[Hammystaff]

They have not been the least bit aggressive so far, hopefully they won't be.
We bought 2 as that was all that the shop had left and I thought they were beautiful fish.
Thanks for the advice re little and often, will definitely bear that in mind as the shark really struggled!