Red Eye Tetra

[JJJ]

Hi All,

I have kept a 40g tank for 6 months with no casauluties, it is stocked with 8 Red eye tetras, 6 Sarpeas, 6 black widows and 6 Zebra Danios with a SAE and CAE and a Boneo Sucker. prevoiusly I had 3 red eyes 3 serpeas and a CAE in a 4 gal, for about a year, I upgraded to 40g Jan 08 and trans ferred the
fish to the 40G, all when well..Since then I have just got rid of an Algae Bloom( Double dose Excel)and a month ago and I planted some Gypts Hygro's and Baby tears, the fish love it, i have noticed that 1 particlar RED EYE tetra has rounded up and have a few questions.
BTW:
Maintanence: water changes once a week,with conditioner , KH up, and crystals for Gh, excel and florish as recommended for plants.
Last weeks readings (KH=120, GH=60,PH=7, Nitrate =0, nitrite=0.
Feeding: flakes, tetramin and Bloodworms (twice a week, once a day)

Q1.Are there any Symtoms I should look out for if my Red Eye tetra has Dropsy or Is pregnant?

Q2.If pregnant can I use a 4G tank for breeding, or can I use a breeding basket in the existing tank,
what else should I do?

Q3 I still have some brown algae how can I get rid of that? the SAE and CAE only have green Algae, I thought the Borneo sucker would have the brown , however he spends most of his time hiding behind plants.

 

[rabbut]

The fact that you don't have a ammonia reading, and the fact that your nitrate reads zero tell me your using a dry tab dip strip Am I right

If so, bin the kit, as it is about as accurate as asking your next door neibour whom knows nothing about fish, to make up some values for the test results Liquid drop tests are the only moderately accurate tests available, and they will work out cheaper in the long run too 25pack of dip strips costs about £15. A 800 test API master liquid kit is arround £25. Though initial cost is higher, they are more accurate and cheaper long-term. I personaly use Tetratest kits, and can't fault them. Others on here use API though, and it is the most recomended kit

There are four critical items that you need to test for. Ammonia (the most important IMO), nitrite, nitrate and pH. Ammonia is the first thing to raise if their is a fault, and unlike nitrite it caurse irriversible damage, and is fatal more quickly

Now on to your questions.

1) In dropsy, the fishes scales will raise out, a pregnat (egg filled) fish will only look fat. Tetras are egg layers, so don't get pregnant in the common sence of the word

2) You could move the fish into the 4G tank if it is dropsy, but you would still need to treat the main tank. The 4G is probibly too small for breeding... Might want a second opinion on that though, as I don't breed tetras.

3) Brown algea... Usualy either too much light or too much nutrients. Is it slime type stuff, or hairy? Also, how long do you have your lights on for each day?

CAE will become preditory when older, as they require more protien in their diet. I'd look to re-home ASAP. I'm not formiliar with SAE, so can't realy comment on them.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[JJJ]

The fact that you don't have a ammonia reading, and the fact that your nitrate reads zero tell me your using a dry tab dip strip Am I right

If so, bin the kit, as it is about as accurate as asking your next door neibour whom knows nothing about fish, to make up some values for the test results Liquid drop tests are the only moderately accurate tests available, and they will work out cheaper in the long run too 25pack of dip strips costs about £15. A 800 test API master liquid kit is arround £25. Though initial cost is higher, they are more accurate and cheaper long-term. I personaly use Tetratest kits, and can't fault them. Others on here use API though, and it is the most recomended kit

There are four critical items that you need to test for. Ammonia (the most important IMO), nitrite, nitrate and pH. Ammonia is the first thing to raise if their is a fault, and unlike nitrite it caurse irriversible damage, and is fatal more quickly

Now on to your questions.

1) In dropsy, the fishes scales will raise out, a pregnat (egg filled) fish will only look fat. Tetras are egg layers, so don't get pregnant in the common sence of the word

2) You could move the fish into the 4G tank if it is dropsy, but you would still need to treat the main tank. The 4G is probibly too small for breeding... Might want a second opinion on that though, as I don't breed tetras.

3) Brown algea... Usualy either too much light or too much nutrients. Is it slime type stuff, or hairy? Also, how long do you have your lights on for each day?

CAE will become preditory when older, as they require more protien in their diet. I'd look to re-home ASAP. I'm not formiliar with SAE, so can't realy comment on them.

HTH
Rabbut


Thanks Rabbut ,
Your right I'II get rid of the strips,
just got an Ammonia tester: 0/ppm, also got a Gh tester, hardness is at 180ppm, Nitrate and ph are on the way!!

1./ Dropsy, how should i treat the main tank? any special chem's, Is it contagious? I've seen suggestions of antibotics in the food . the Red eye tetra is not behaving sick, still hungry and schooling, however has become nippy in the last day or 2.He is a liittle bigger than Fat.( more in the last 3-5 days)

2. the brown algae is slimy mainly on plants and rocks and gravel, I have stopped Double dose excell treatment as all the green algae has disappered,
I keep my lights on for 10hrs a day ( 3w/gal) .For plants I am back to recommended dose(florish supplement 2 x week and excell 3 ml every day)

3. I have had the CAE for a year now( in 4 gal and now in 40gal, has become bigger/slower in the 40gal) when is he too old, is it too dangerous for the zebra Danios? as I have noticed some fins missing in the last month. he does hide under his rock and pedtrols that corner of the tank, the Tetra's don't seem fussed

4. I have had suggestions that my filter may need a different sponge, (for my algae problem )
At the moment I have a "Aqua one" hang on filter i change the carbon stones every 4 weeks and replace the sponge every 2, do 20-25% water change every week. is this too much or too little? that was the suggestion from my LFS( could also be my Neighbour!!)

How can I attatch pics on this Forum?

 

[rabbut]

Thanks Rabbut ,
Your right I'II get rid of the strips,
just got an Ammonia tester: 0/ppm, also got a Gh tester, hardness is at 180ppm, Nitrate and ph are on the way!!

1./ Dropsy, how should i treat the main tank? any special chem's, Is it contagious? I've seen suggestions of antibotics in the food . the Red eye tetra is not behaving sick, still hungry and schooling, however has become nippy in the last day or 2.He is a liittle bigger than Fat.( more in the last 3-5 days)

I'd use Interpet number 7 for dropsy, and yes it is very contagious. Once fish are showing symptoms, they are often so far gone that they cannot be saved This is an anti-biotic and poses are risk to your filter, so only use if you are sure you are dealing with dropsy. If you do use it, cut back on feeding, and keep watching ammonia and nitrite during treatment

2. the brown algae is slimy mainly on plants and rocks and gravel, I have stopped Double dose excell treatment as all the green algae has disappered,
I keep my lights on for 10hrs a day ( 3w/gal) .For plants I am back to recommended dose(florish supplement 2 x week and excell 3 ml every day)

I'd try a seiesta in your lighting periond, and cutting back to 8 hours a day for a while. I recomend 4 hours on, 2 hor break then the rest of teh 4 hours, using a timer switch. this is distructive to algea, but the plants will see it as 10 hours strait.

3. I have had the CAE for a year now( in 4 gal and now in 40gal, has become bigger/slower in the 40gal) when is he too old, is it too dangerous for the zebra Danios? as I have noticed some fins missing in the last month. he does hide under his rock and pedtrols that corner of the tank, the Tetra's don't seem fussed

just keep an eye on him. If fish go missing, it's time to get rid of him Not all CAE are nasty, but IME most are.

4. I have had suggestions that my filter may need a different sponge, (for my algae problem )
At the moment I have a "Aqua one" hang on filter i change the carbon stones every 4 weeks and replace the sponge every 2, do 20-25% water change every week. is this too much or too little? that was the suggestion from my LFS( could also be my Neighbour!!)

How can I attatch pics on this Forum?

Sponge doesn't need replacing, and in doing so your are endangering your fish by throwing away your good bacteria. The algea is probibly caursed by high ammonia and nitrite as a result of these replacements. I wouldn't listen to the LFS's advise, as it would appear that they are trying to make money out of you by putting your fish are risk
Carbon is only active for a few days, so it needs replacing more often if you are going to use it. I wouldn't for genearal tropicals, as it isn't realy needed. I'd replace with more sponge
For a mature tank your waterchanges will be fine. You will currently be cycling, so aim for 50% daily until you get your test kits, then read [topic="224306"]here[/topic] to see where to go from here

HTH
Rabbut

 

[JJJ]

Thanks Rabbut ,
Your right I'II get rid of the strips,
just got an Ammonia tester: 0/ppm, also got a Gh tester, hardness is at 180ppm, Nitrate and ph are on the way!!

1./ Dropsy, how should i treat the main tank? any special chem's, Is it contagious? I've seen suggestions of antibotics in the food . the Red eye tetra is not behaving sick, still hungry and schooling, however has become nippy in the last day or 2.He is a liittle bigger than Fat.( more in the last 3-5 days)

I'd use Interpet number 7 for dropsy, and yes it is very contagious. Once fish are showing symptoms, they are often so far gone that they cannot be saved This is an anti-biotic and poses are risk to your filter, so only use if you are sure you are dealing with dropsy. If you do use it, cut back on feeding, and keep watching ammonia and nitrite during treatment

2. the brown algae is slimy mainly on plants and rocks and gravel, I have stopped Double dose excell treatment as all the green algae has disappered,
I keep my lights on for 10hrs a day ( 3w/gal) .For plants I am back to recommended dose(florish supplement 2 x week and excell 3 ml every day)

I'd try a seiesta in your lighting periond, and cutting back to 8 hours a day for a while. I recomend 4 hours on, 2 hor break then the rest of teh 4 hours, using a timer switch. this is distructive to algea, but the plants will see it as 10 hours strait.

3. I have had the CAE for a year now( in 4 gal and now in 40gal, has become bigger/slower in the 40gal) when is he too old, is it too dangerous for the zebra Danios? as I have noticed some fins missing in the last month. he does hide under his rock and pedtrols that corner of the tank, the Tetra's don't seem fussed

just keep an eye on him. If fish go missing, it's time to get rid of him Not all CAE are nasty, but IME most are.

4. I have had suggestions that my filter may need a different sponge, (for my algae problem )
At the moment I have a "Aqua one" hang on filter i change the carbon stones every 4 weeks and replace the sponge every 2, do 20-25% water change every week. is this too much or too little? that was the suggestion from my LFS( could also be my Neighbour!!)

How can I attatch pics on this Forum?

Sponge doesn't need replacing, and in doing so your are endangering your fish by throwing away your good bacteria. The algea is probibly caursed by high ammonia and nitrite as a result of these replacements. I wouldn't listen to the LFS's advise, as it would appear that they are trying to make money out of you by putting your fish are risk
Carbon is only active for a few days, so it needs replacing more often if you are going to use it. I wouldn't for genearal tropicals, as it isn't realy needed. I'd replace with more sponge
For a mature tank your waterchanges will be fine. You will currently be cycling, so aim for 50% daily until you get your test kits, then read [topic="224306"]here[/topic] to see where to go from here

HTH
Rabbut

Thanks Again Rabbut.
I have replaced the sponge got rid of the Carbon, did 30% water change and got some proper API test kits:

PH=6.8
Ammonia=0
Nitrite=0
Nitrate=30ppm
GH=150ppm


I have also reduced light to 6 hours a day, less brown algae with these guys( boneo sucker, SAE, CAE and bristle nose)

I have also treated the tank with "tri-sulfa" tablet( treats external Bacteria deseases) one of my zebra danio has 2 spots on it , it continually rubs against plants ect.. i have noticed it this week, sounds like "Ich"? after 3 days clean tank 30% water change and begin treatment again hopefully the spots disappear after 2 weeks

It also could be some parasite desease, it is only effected the Zebra Danios, all other tetras don't have it, also it was suggested that neon? tetras also succume to this desease ?

Now the Red Eye has steady got larger , no increase in the last two days, still active and eating well?
I have read that Epson salts also aid Dropsy, which is an internal baterial desease, could I add Salts while treating the tank?

The other tetras don't seem effected at this stage, I have noticed that they try bully the effected Red eye, however he gives it back, still fairly active.

I am contemplating to cut my loses just get rid of the effected Red eye tetra and Zebra Danio, just concentrate on teating the tank!

let you know how it goes,

Thanks a mil for your advice

 

[rabbut]

You could use salt, but the pleco will not take too well to it as s/he is salt intolerant.

Don't treat anything untill you are certain that you know you are dealing with an issue. Treatements for dropsy will not work for whitespot (ICH) and visa versa. You cannot switch meds for at least 48 hours after the last dose, often more depending on the base of the medication. If you are treating for dropsy, you may have an issue now as you cannot switch to cover whitespot untill it is probibly too late

The symptoms you describe are identical to those of ich. Are the spots shugar grain size? If so, I'd use Protozin after a 50% waterchange and running carbon for 12hours in the filter to remove the dropsy med. I can't stress how important it is not to treat until, you are certain of what you are dealing with. Medications put fish onder stress, making them more suceptible to disease, and if the meds are wrong, they will therefore speed the spread of any infection...

I'm supprised that changing the sponge has dropped ammonia and nitrite to zero, the opposit should hae occured. The bacteria were chucked with the old one, so they should be raising. It is just plain sponge isn't it, not impregnated with anything? If it is plane sponge do not replace it untill it literaly falls appart as cantinualy replacng it will keep the tank cycling. If it gets blocked, clean in a bucket of water taken form the tank

All the best
Rabbut

 

[JJJ]

You could use salt, but the pleco will not take too well to it as s/he is salt intolerant.

Don't treat anything untill you are certain that you know you are dealing with an issue. Treatements for dropsy will not work for whitespot (ICH) and visa versa. You cannot switch meds for at least 48 hours after the last dose, often more depending on the base of the medication. If you are treating for dropsy, you may have an issue now as you cannot switch to cover whitespot untill it is probibly too late

The symptoms you describe are identical to those of ich. Are the spots shugar grain size? If so, I'd use Protozin after a 50% waterchange and running carbon for 12hours in the filter to remove the dropsy med. I can't stress how important it is not to treat until, you are certain of what you are dealing with. Medications put fish onder stress, making them more suceptible to disease, and if the meds are wrong, they will therefore speed the spread of any infection...

I'm supprised that changing the sponge has dropped ammonia and nitrite to zero, the opposit should hae occured. The bacteria were chucked with the old one, so they should be raising. It is just plain sponge isn't it, not impregnated with anything? If it is plane sponge do not replace it untill it literaly falls appart as cantinualy replacng it will keep the tank cycling. If it gets blocked, clean in a bucket of water taken form the tank

All the best
Rabbut

I have used The" tri-sulfa" just to treat the tank so no deseases would spread to other fish, My ammonia/ nitrate levels have always been 0, since I started the treatments, I just jusified them with proper testers as suggetsed earlier. I added 1/2 teaspoon epsom salt.

The Zebra Danio has three spots 2 pin size on one side and 1 suger grain size on the other side near the rear, It seems as though there are bubbling effect ( 2 -3 lumps inside the wound) on the suger grain size, (it is still increasing in size). hhowever the ZD still eating.

The red eye is still expanding, I read in a treat thet epson salts could help dropsy as it is internal baterial desease.

The filtrer I have is a hang on it has 3 compartments 1 for bacteria deposites,( palstic mess design cartridge to capture bateria) never changed,( I guess this is used for continual cycling) the 2nd is for carbon stones, which it currently removed , and the 3rd is for sponge, the sponge i prevoius had was a ph sponge, reccommended by LFS, i got rid of that and added another plain fliter sponge . Since I had the tank after the initail cycle, ammonia levels have always been 0, The only proper teater i had tester was ammonia, besides those test strips, which means prevoius reading where irrelevent.


I have stopped all plant ferts since last week,(started treatment) the tri-sulfa is an external bacterial desease treatment.
What will the protozin treat? should i still water change every 3 days, as per treatment recommendation

I have also discover some red snails in my tank, RAMSHORN snails they are so smal about 5mm I tried to syphor as many as many I could , I got about 10, there are properly 10 left, any ideas on how to get rid of them?
I seen some tread that they may contain paracites and take a liking to Hygro's which i have , I have noticed some holes in my cypts as well. I have a small class container with algae flakes and lettuce class hoping to attact them in there, but i check this morning and none in there.

Cheers again.

 

[JJJ]

You could use salt, but the pleco will not take too well to it as s/he is salt intolerant.

Don't treat anything untill you are certain that you know you are dealing with an issue. Treatements for dropsy will not work for whitespot (ICH) and visa versa. You cannot switch meds for at least 48 hours after the last dose, often more depending on the base of the medication. If you are treating for dropsy, you may have an issue now as you cannot switch to cover whitespot untill it is probibly too late

The symptoms you describe are identical to those of ich. Are the spots shugar grain size? If so, I'd use Protozin after a 50% waterchange and running carbon for 12hours in the filter to remove the dropsy med. I can't stress how important it is not to treat until, you are certain of what you are dealing with. Medications put fish onder stress, making them more suceptible to disease, and if the meds are wrong, they will therefore speed the spread of any infection...

I'm supprised that changing the sponge has dropped ammonia and nitrite to zero, the opposit should hae occured. The bacteria were chucked with the old one, so they should be raising. It is just plain sponge isn't it, not impregnated with anything? If it is plane sponge do not replace it untill it literaly falls appart as cantinualy replacng it will keep the tank cycling. If it gets blocked, clean in a bucket of water taken form the tank

All the best
Rabbut

I have used The" tri-sulfa" just to treat the tank so no deseases would spread to other fish, My ammonia/ nitrate levels have always been 0, since I started the treatments, I just jusified them with proper testers as suggetsed earlier. I added 1/2 teaspoon epsom salt.

The Zebra Danio has three spots 2 pin size on one side and 1 suger grain size on the other side near the rear, It seems as though there are bubbling effect ( 2 -3 lumps inside the wound) on the suger grain size, (it is still increasing in size). hhowever the ZD still eating.

The red eye is still expanding, I read in a treat thet epson salts could help dropsy as it is internal baterial desease.

The filtrer I have is a hang on it has 3 compartments 1 for bacteria deposites,( palstic mess design cartridge to capture bateria) never changed,( I guess this is used for continual cycling) the 2nd is for carbon stones, which it currently removed , and the 3rd is for sponge, the sponge i prevoius had was a ph sponge, reccommended by LFS, i got rid of that and added another plain fliter sponge . Since I had the tank after the initail cycle, ammonia levels have always been 0, The only proper teater i had tester was ammonia, besides those test strips, which means prevoius reading where irrelevent.


I have stopped all plant ferts since last week,(started treatment) the tri-sulfa is an external bacterial desease treatment.
What will the protozin treat? should i still water change every 3 days, as per treatment recommendation

I have also discover some red snails in my tank, RAMSHORN snails they are so smal about 5mm I tried to syphor as many as many I could , I got about 10, there are properly 10 left, any ideas on how to get rid of them?
I seen some tread that they may contain paracites and take a liking to Hygro's which i have , I have noticed some holes in my cypts as well. I have a small class container with algae flakes and lettuce class hoping to attact them in there, but i check this morning and none in there.

Cheers again.

 

[rabbut]

Not farmiliar with the tri-sulfar stuff

Protozin is a protazoan parasite meds, that will cover the white spot. If you are sure you have a bacterial issue I'd recomend Interpet anti-internal bacteria, that will cover external issues also I have no experience with tri-sulfar as stated above, but if you have whittespot as well, you will need a remady with copper, malichite green or fromalin in it, on top of the bacteria med whatever that may be. Look on the shelf at bacteria meds, and check the ingrediants list for the three compounds mentioned above

I have ramshorn snails in my tank and son't have any issues with them, so I leave them be. If they become an issue they are hard to remove. The method you mention is the best, as all others will damage filters, fish or both in doses adiquate for the snails Even if they were viable, the rotting snails would caurse ammonia and nitrite spikes

HTH
Rabbut

 

[JJJ]

Not farmiliar with the tri-sulfar stuff

Protozin is a protazoan parasite meds, that will cover the white spot. If you are sure you have a bacterial issue I'd recomend Interpet anti-internal bacteria, that will cover external issues also I have no experience with tri-sulfar as stated above, but if you have whittespot as well, you will need a remady with copper, malichite green or fromalin in it, on top of the bacteria med whatever that may be. Look on the shelf at bacteria meds, and check the ingrediants list for the three compounds mentioned above

I have ramshorn snails in my tank and son't have any issues with them, so I leave them be. If they become an issue they are hard to remove. The method you mention is the best, as all others will damage filters, fish or both in doses adiquate for the snails Even if they were viable, the rotting snails would caurse ammonia and nitrite spikes

HTH
Rabbut

Thanks again,
Tri Sulfa also treats ich, fin rot, external fungus, I will look for interpet and try that.

Update: the Rey eye has steadied , not getting any larger still active and eating,
The 3 spots on Zebra Danios have stopped growing, ,however the fish does get tied at the end of the Day, still active in the morning and has an appitie.
No other fish are infected at this stage.


What do I need to feed the Ramshorn Snails? I have lettuce in a small jar and haven't caught any yet, there are holes in the lettuce, (I normall turn on the lights at 8 am,)
I am a little worried about the plants (3 Cypts,1 Ambulia,1 baby tears, and 2 Hygrophilia) ..

Cheers

 

[rabbut]

IME, Ramshorns don't harm plants, but there are reports that they do. Anything meaty like flake food would draw them into the trap. There would only be a problem number of them if you overfeed, so if there are humdereds of the things in your tank, you need to cut down on the ammount you feed your fish, starving them to death, reducing numbers.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[JJJ]

Hi Rabbut,
As I just started traetment with interpet 9, the RED EYE died (this morning) , causing ammonia to raise, later that day the Borneo died as well, ammonia was 2 ppm I did a 50% water immediatly and checked again it had decreased to 1 ppm, should I do a continually change the water or wait a few days ?

Before water change:

PH=6.8
nitrate=30
nitrite=0
Ammonia=2


thanks again

 

[rabbut]

Keep waterchanging when ammonia is detectable, and remember to treat the replacement water before adding, so that the meds are still in there. Even if nobody else is showing signs of illness, keep treating for one caurse, as it can still be there but showing no symptoms

 

[JJJ]

Keep waterchanging when ammonia is detectable, and remember to treat the replacement water before adding, so that the meds are still in there. Even if nobody else is showing signs of illness, keep treating for one caurse, as it can still be there but showing no symptoms

I have continued to do water changes for every 2/3 days depending on Ammonia levels. I have also tested for Nitrite, expecting to see some as part of the cycle, I have tested nitrite amounts(.25 ppm), however i have not seen any large amounts of nitrate as expected 10 ppm. Ammomia varies from 1-2.
If the cycle is progressing i should see ammonia decreasing , nitrite, nitrate increasing, It has already been 8 days since ammonia levels where detected, I don't like the levels to increase too much ( max 2 ppm).

The fish seem to be ok, at the end of the second day , when ammonia is 2 + they keep towards the upper levels..I immediatley do a water change.

I am conditioning the water with conditioner 5ml per 10 litres and cycle 5-10 ml per 10 litres

Here are my readings in the last week, I haven't swapped the sponge to keep all the bacteria, to hopefully quicken the process.

Sunday 25/05- before a 50% water change
Ammonia 2 ppm -
nitrite-0ppm
nitrate-10 ppm
ph=6.8

Mon-26/05- no water change
Ammonia 1 ppm -
nitrite-0ppm
nitrate-10 ppm
ph=7

Tues-27/05- before 25% water change
Ammonia 2 ppm -
nitrite-.25 ppm
nitrate-10 ppm
ph=7

Wed-26/05- no water change
Ammonia 1 ppm -
nitrite-0ppm
nitrate-10 ppm
ph=7

Thurs -no reading-

Friday-28/05- before 35% water change(10ml cycle/10 litres)
Ammonia 2-ppm -
nitrite-.25 ppm
nitrate-10 ppm
ph=7

Sunday -30/05- before 25% water change
Ammonia 2-ppm -
nitrite-.25 ppm
nitrate-10 ppm
ph=7

As you can see nitrate hasn't increased I also doubled the cycle amount on friday, expecting ammonia to decrease by then, It still has not cycled!!

Is there anything else I could do?
The filter is running fine at the moment, towards the end of the week it may start getting clogged, I am reluctant to clean the sponge as i may lose all the good bacteria needed to cycle .( I clean the sponge in aquaruim water that has just been syphoned from the tank.)

 

[rabbut]

You need to increase waterchanges to get the ammonia below the .25ppm mark, as it will do serious damage in a very short length of time at levels any higher
I assume that you have not been able to find mature media to help the cycle along? The bottle of Cycle is useless, contains the wrong bacteria, so don't waste money on more.

At this point it is just a case of keeping up waterchanges and waiting for the bacteria to take over Mature media would get things moving more quickly

All the best
Rabbut