Rd's Fish-in And Fishless Cycles.

[r.d.bid]

Hello everyone.

First I'd like to say thank you to all who have contributed so much time and effort in helping everyone out and providing so much great information on this site.

So on to my tanks. My baseline plain tap water results are 8.0ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates and 82 degrees F.

The first tank is a 20 US gallon acryllic tank and it's currently going through a fish-in cycle. I'm sure you can all guess as to why it's a fish in cycle.
I've been very dilligent in doing daily water changes to keep the ammonia levels down as much as possible. I've also kept a log book of all the water paramaters that I can test using the API Master Test Kit.

In this tank are a few decorations, gravel, 6 long finned red minor tetras, 1 julli cory, 1 peppered cory and 1 emerald cory.
The tank is filtered with an Aqueon Quiet Flow 30.
The tank has now been cycling for 40 days (started on 8/14) and I have not noticed any change in ammonia levels or nitirte levels. There is absolutely no evidence that this tank is even beginning to cycle. The testing that I did this morning before a 80% water change was 8.0 ph, .50 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate and 83 deg. F.
I've done daily water changes to keep the ammonia levels down as much as possible and I'm trying not to feed the fish too much or too often.
I dechlorinate all tap water with Tetra Aquasafe plus.

This tank has shown signs of algae growth on the walls which I have cleared away using a scrub brush and for a few days last month the water looked "dusty" but that has since cleared up.



My next tank is a 50 US gallon glass tank. This tank is going through a fishless cycle using the "add once" method as described in the Beginners Resource section.
In this tank are fake decorations, 4 rocks (which have been tested for safeness per info on this site) and play sand is being used as a substrate. It is filtered with a Aqueon Quiet Flow 50.
There is also a tank heater which is keeping the water temp at 86 deg. F.

This tank has confused me even more. I started the fishless cycle on 9/12 by raising ammonia to 4.0. I tested daily and the ammonia levels dropped to 1.0 over the course of 8 days. When the level reached 1.0 I dosed more ammonia to bring the level back up to 4.0. The confusing part to me is that the ammonia levels have now stayed at 4.0 for the last 6 days.
ph is 8.2, nitrites are 0 and nitrates are 0. Water temp is 86 deg. F.
Any water that I have put in this tank has been treated and dechlorinated with Tetra Aquasafe plus.
I don't know why the ammonia process has seemed to stall. I've not done anything to the filter (it's getting kind of dirty but still maintains good flow) and the only thing that I've done to the tank is add and muck around with the decorations.

So, needless to say I'm confused at all of this and now I'm somewhat put off on fishkeeping. If I had known it was going to be this difficult to get a cycle going I may not have started keeping fish at all. But, I've gone this far already so I'm going to stick with it. But in all honesty I'm losing patience with it all.

If any of you have any input please let me know. Maybe I'm doing something wrong that I don't know about. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Chad]

I cycle my tanks in a very old fashioned way. I put a piece of table shrimp in the tank. As it decays it produces ammonia which sets off the cycle. Because the shrimp is large enough it will continue to rot for quite some time and thus continue to provide ammonia at a steady rate. I've been doing it this way for about the last 7 years which represents about 20 or so new tank start-ups in that period of time. So far this method has produced the desired results. In larger tanks I have placed more than one shrimp to do the job. I place them in a cup or basket so when it comes time to remove them it's easy to do. In my marine tanks I leave the shrimp in and let the hermit crabs and nassarius snail finish them off.

 

[r.d.bid]

Hey tcamos!

You suggest your method over adding ammonia? I'm using the Janitorial Strength Ammonia from ACE Hardware that has been recomended.
How long did it take to cycle your tanks?

 

[Chad]

This method works for me. I know the ammonia method works for others. So I hate to say my method is best because I really don't know if it is. Rather I say you've tried one method, try another and decide which you like. You've probably see this thread http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/ that goes into ways of doing it.

Depending on tank size it takes 2-5 weeks. I've had small 5.5 gallon tanks cycle in a couple of weeks and larger tanks take a little over a month.

What I like about the method I use is the cost is very low and there is no daily/weekly addition of ammonia, the table shrimp provides a continious amount. Again, based on the size of the tank you may need more than one table shrimp.

And you get to eat the shrimp you don't use in the tank!

 

[r.d.bid]

Finally some movement on my 50 gal. tank. I just finished testing today (day 16) and now have a nitrite reading of .50ppm.

But still no progress on my fish-in, 20 gal. tank. No nitrite readings at all after 42 days. I just don't get it.

 

[Chad]

One issue with fish-in cycling that we were discussing earlier today is that in order to keep the fish alive you must do frequent water changes to reduce the amount of ammonia. By reducing the amount of ammonia you reduce its availability to bacteria which prolongs the cycle. If you do not do the water changes the cycle is faster but the fish suffers. Day 16 sounds about right but day 42 seems extraordinary. Do you test any nitrates in that tank?

 

[r.d.bid]

One issue with fish-in cycling that we were discussing earlier today is that in order to keep the fish alive you must do frequent water changes to reduce the amount of ammonia. By reducing the amount of ammonia you reduce its availability to bacteria which prolongs the cycle. If you do not do the water changes the cycle is faster but the fish suffers. Day 16 sounds about right but day 42 seems extraordinary. Do you test any nitrates in that tank?

That sounds completely logical and I've kinda come to the same conclusion myself regarding the fish-in cycle taking longer due to lower amounts of ammonia, but yeah, 42 days is seeming way to long.

I tested for nitrites today and I got a zero reading.
I periodically test for nitrates as well and that has always turned up negative. The last time I checked nitrates was 2 days ago and it was a zero reading.

Do we have any idea where these bacteria come from? How are they getting introduced into our tanks?
I assume that they can't come from the tap water because the chlorine would have killed them off. So that leads me to believe that they are airborn. I had the windows open the other day (since we are now getting cooler temps here as you're well aware) and the window open right next to my 50 gallon tank with it's lid open. That's the tank that has finally started to cycle today. Any corelation you think?

 

[Chad]

The bacteria are found naturally in almost all water sources. In water with very little for them to consume there will be small numbers of them. The idea is that they grow in our tanks because we provide them with food (ammonia, nitrite and in some tanks nitrate is consumed as well). It's actually different types of bacteria...nitrosomas for ammonia, nitrospira for the nitrite, and bacillus can consume nitrates. Bacteria are everywhere!

 

[r.d.bid]

The filter on my 50 gallon that has finally just started to cycle is getting rather filthy and is restricting some of the water flow. Should I attempt to gently clean the filter now or should I leave it alone and wait until the tank has fully cycled?

 

[Chad]

I have always left mine alone until the cycle was done. I have to say that wasn't really for any purpose, just because it wasn't dirty so I didn't mess feel the need to clean it.

 

[r.d.bid]

I did change the filter on both tanks. I thought that it might stall the progress that I had been making on my 50 gal. tank but it doesn't seem to have had any effect on the cycle.
Ammonia is still being processed and the level of nitrAtes are still on the rise.

I've decided to start over on my 20 gal. tank. There just has to be something preventing it from starting a cycle. 45 days and no start to a cycle is really way to long. So I cleaned it all out in hopes to get rid of what may be preventing the cycle from starting. I also put the old filter from the tank that is cycling in the 20 gal. in hopes that will kick start the cycle. We shall see. But even if it does start, the 50 gal. tank will be ready for fish well before the 20 gal. is, so now it's kind of moot.

 

[Chad]

Let us know how it goes then. It's an odd happening but at least you have a nice 50 to enjoy.