Ram Behavior

[fishinessex]

I got a pair (1M 1F) of Rams about 6 weeks ago. They are great...I love them! She spawned after a couple days, but they ate the eggs that night.

Fast forward......I like the Rams so much, I decided to get another female to add to the tank....that was about 2 weeks ago. She has spawned twice now, the first time the eggs were eaten the first night, the second time, the male ate them after two days.....at least he's holding out longer now.

Here is the problem: the new female is very aggressive towards the first female and really bullies her around. The male chases her alot as well, only sometimes in a courting movement. My first female now stays mostly on her own and seems afraid of the others....they REALLY chase her off at feeding time.

Anyone have any suggestions??? I was thinking about getting a third female. Will that help or hurt the situation??? I don't have a second tank so I'm stuck with what I have for the moment...and I really don't want to get rid of the new female, unless it's the only option.

Thanks in advance !!!

 

[Katchan]

Sorry to say but rams are not polygamous(sp?). They prefer a single m/f pairing thats why your original female is getting alot of flak. Your options are get rid of one of the girls or get another boy if your tank is big enough (just checked, yes a 155litre is more than bigenough given some planting and some caves/driftwood/rocks) for 2 pairs of rams

HTH

Andrew

 

[fishinessex]

Thanks for the advice Andrew! I don't mind adding another male. Much better option than getting rid of one of the girls. Do you think the two males will fight over the second female and ignore the first one? Or do they usually just pair up?
My tank isn't heavily planted, but I have a decent amount. I've got one cave, one fake hollowed out tree trunk, and I'm in the process of building another cave. Attaching a pic of my tank. What do you think??

Alan

 

[Heather.]

Thats a pretty tank

 

[DarkEntity]

What i would say is if you intend of having 2 pairs, create 2 distinct areas in the tank, move stuff about so that the 4 Rams need to setup all new territories, it may lessen the aggresion.

 

[Katchan]

First up, up I agree with heather nice tank

2nd - Personally I'd add another small rock in middle near the front, anything to break up the territories a bit more, and it wont interfere with your tree behind it

3rd - nice amount of planting, maybe something small behind the cave on the right, other wise great

In my experience (could be different with others) my girls have chosed their mates, not vica versa, though once a pair is formed it usually stays.

fifth yeah if it doesnt work do the cichlid thing LOL, move things around just as dark entity said

Andrew

 

[fishinessex]

Thanks for the advice Andrew and Dark Entity!!! I'm going to get another male today. And will work on the landscaping this weekend to see what I can do about creating 2 distinct areas. I'll keep everyone posted.

Also, thanks for the kudos on my tank Heather and Andrew.

 

[thegnu]

rams do better in one pair per tank, or one ram per tank. i only keep one pair in a 400L tank. to watch one pair's behavior is great, they are fish with personality, but adding anymore numbers and you will have aggression to watch

 

[Katchan]

Guess I'd have to agree to disagree on this point gnu . In anything over a 20gallon (and sometimes under) american dwarfs are much more interesting, and often less stressed with either inter or intra species/dwarf contact. In the wild they live in a wide range of fish concentrations, sometimes more than we would consider safe other times less than we consider normal for their species. These fish like ALL cichlids can have the ability to be aggressive and territorial and it is often this territorialness that brings out the bond between male and female hence the fact the a target fish may sometimes be used when trying to trigger a spawn or better parenting behaviour eg oftimes a pair of dwarfs may start getting aggresive to each other but the bresence of a "possible threat" lessens this tension between them and they focus on defending their brood. This is not limited to mating either, if there is another "target or targets" to defend his turf from a male usually stresses out a female less instead of driving her to mate before shes ready.

my 2c

andrew

 

[thegnu]

you make very good points Katchan, i must say i agree with you and have used alot of what you state myself but my pair of rams have mated many times and to see them interact with each other like an old married couple, a little bickering and telling off each other like when say the male might grab a bloodworm that the female was eyeing up and she will give him a friendly bite as though to say, "that wasn't very gentlemanly." (am i being daft) but this is what i see. i am so attached to them i wouldn't dare place another pair of rams in with them for fear of upsetting what they have going. i think when you have a tank running harmoniously and see your fish grow and interact in community's its great. (perhaps i'm a voyeur.) perhaps all fishkeepers are secret voyeurs.

 

[fishinessex]

Thanks for the discussion, everyone. It is great to hear a variety of opinions, even if some of them contradict each other. It just shows that not all fish act like they are "supposed to" and it's always good to hear the differing opinions. The final choice lies with the fishkeeper.

I know what you mean thegnu, my first pair always swam around and acted like "mom and dad" of the tank. (The male being the boss.) Now with the two pairs, it's an interesting dynamic. The new female is the boss of the entire tank. The new male is still getting used to the new surroundings, but I think in a few days everything will be super. Hopefully I will end up with two pairs that can live peacefully together. If not, I guess I'll be forced to get another tank......which could also be fun.

Many thanks Andrew....you gave me lots of ideas. I'm still working on the landscape....I have moved some plants around to the middle, front of the tank. Also put a nice piece of slate in front of the tree stump on the left side. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Katchan]

Gnu and fishinessex, thats the great thing about cichlids, there are no hard rules just general rules. What works for most of us may not work for someone else because of fish temprament or some other dynamic, thats why places like this are great to talk and toss about ideas.

Andrew

ps and gnu if your a voyeur, i guess i am too

 

[fishinessex]

Well, the new guy has been in the tank for 2 days now and has colored up incredibly! My first female is also starting to get her color back too. Both males are courting the new female and she is finally taking a liking to the new male. The old male is starting to pay some attention to his initial mate. Whew.....hopefully the 2 new ones will pair up and my originals will "re-pair". Still working on arranging the plants and things, and the fish love it with the additional plants. The corys love the tree stump, now that it has a piece of slate in front. Anyway, the 4 Rams still do some chasing but there hasn't been any real agression all day. Hoping it stays that way.

Here's a few pics:
Males courting the newer female...

Newer male and female:

New male finally getting his color back

:
Tank pic:

Tank pic with flash (Ram pairs getting along):

 

[bleechme]

I wish my 2 pairs got along.... I have two pairs in a 55 gal. tank with lots of plants and 2 drift wood and a few rocks. I have heavy planting in the middle and hoped that the pairs will have their own sides. but I guess my males are too territorial. they fight all day and I am afriad that ones gonna die, so I had to take out a pair to a 20 gal.