Question Re: Ideal Number Of Angelfish To Keep Together!

[lindabrooke]

Hi guys! 65 gallon freshwater planted tank, currently houses 1 palm(ish) sized female angelfish. I wanted to add a few more to the tank and was wondering what the ideal number/gender pairing was. I know it's sometimes impossible to not have these guys breed and pair off, but I'm trying to keep it as peaceful as possible. Let me know what you think! Thanks.

 

[Byron]

First, discerning male/female is next to impossible in young immature fish.  The diameter of the breeding tube is the best way but this is not easy until the fish are mature enough to breed.  Behaviours among the fish may help, but generally not much.
 
As for numbers, five is the minimum.  This is a shoaling species that will form a hierarchy within the group, and there will be one (or sometimes more) dominant fish and then more subordinate fish.  With fewer than five, there is a very real chance that one or more will be picked on so much they will weaken and die.  With five or more, the natural dominance/aggression will be spread out.  I will post a video I have posted before about this, as it makes it very clear; the video shows a group of 11 (I think) Pterophyllum scalare (the "common" angelfish species) in a large tank, and you can see the fish exerting their individuality throughout, with their challenges, but physical interaction is absent because of the number and space.  The fish in this video are behaving absolutely normally and as nature intended.
 
Another option besides the group of five plus is a breeding pair.  Angelfish must select their own mates, they will not accept just any fish.  Obviously you will have spawning, regularly, to deal with.  Some people keep just a lone angelfish, and while this works, it is not something I recommend because the fish is being kept contrary to its natural inclinations, and I cannot endorse that.
 
The other thing to note is that when one angelfish is alone in an aquarium and more are added, there can be real issues.  It is best to add the fish together to an aquarium, at the same time, and make sure they are roughly the same age/size.  These are after all cichlids, and they have inherent behaviours and traits.
 
Byron.
 
https/www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gXVgWLbZ-g

 

[lindabrooke]

First, discerning male/female is next to impossible in young immature fish.  The diameter of the breeding tube is the best way but this is not easy until the fish are mature enough to breed.  Behaviours among the fish may help, but generally not much.
 
As for numbers, five is the minimum.  This is a shoaling species that will form a hierarchy within the group, and there will be one (or sometimes more) dominant fish and then more subordinate fish.  With fewer than five, there is a very real chance that one or more will be picked on so much they will weaken and die.  With five or more, the natural dominance/aggression will be spread out.  I will post a video I have posted before about this, as it makes it very clear; the video shows a group of 11 (I think) Pterophyllum scalare (the "common" angelfish species) in a large tank, and you can see the fish exerting their individuality throughout, with their challenges, but physical interaction is absent because of the number and space.  The fish in this video are behaving absolutely normally and as nature intended.
 
Another option besides the group of five plus is a breeding pair.  Angelfish must select their own mates, they will not accept just any fish.  Obviously you will have spawning, regularly, to deal with.  Some people keep just a lone angelfish, and while this works, it is not something I recommend because the fish is being kept contrary to its natural inclinations, and I cannot endorse that.
 
The other thing to note is that when one angelfish is alone in an aquarium and more are added, there can be real issues.  It is best to add the fish together to an aquarium, at the same time, and make sure they are roughly the same age/size.  These are after all cichlids, and they have inherent behaviours and traits.
 
Byron.
 
https/www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gXVgWLbZ-g

 
Thank you for your in-depth answer. I'll plan on getting 4 angels today, and they'll all roughly be the same size. 

 

[Akasha72]

I just wanted to add something to Byron's well explained information (which I totally agree with) If you are planning on adding new angels to the existing one it's a good idea to have a re-scape of the tank before you add the new arrivals.
 
Your existing angel will have decided on his/her territory and so by adding new angels to that territory he/she is more than likely gonna attack them ... and I mean attack them ... to the point of attempting to commit murder and I have seen this with my own eyes and it's pretty scary.
If you re-arrange the tank before you add the new angels it will potentially break up what the existing angel see's as his/her territory and will make adding new angels easier.
This is not an exact science though and even if you completely re-arrange everything in the tank the existing angel may still attack the new arrivals

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Agreed.  REMOVE the angel, then move as much around as you possibly can - then introduce ALL the fish at the same time.  Possibly even adding the old angel last by a few moments.

 

[lindabrooke]

I just wanted to add something to Byron's well explained information (which I totally agree with) If you are planning on adding new angels to the existing one it's a good idea to have a re-scape of the tank before you add the new arrivals.
 
Your existing angel will have decided on his/her territory and so by adding new angels to that territory he/she is more than likely gonna attack them ... and I mean attack them ... to the point of attempting to commit murder and I have seen this with my own eyes and it's pretty scary.
If you re-arrange the tank before you add the new angels it will potentially break up what the existing angel see's as his/her territory and will make adding new angels easier.
This is not an exact science though and even if you completely re-arrange everything in the tank the existing angel may still attack the new arrivals

 
 

Agreed.  REMOVE the angel, then move as much around as you possibly can - then introduce ALL the fish at the same time.  Possibly even adding the old angel last by a few moments.

This is really good advice. I actually have a largish plant order coming in soon and planned on escaping, so when I get that, I'll take out the existing angel, rescape, and then add them all in together.

 

[Akasha72]

if the new angels are very young this may also help as the adult angel is less likely to see them as a threat. Another piece of advice would be to introduce the old and the new early in the day, when you are going to be around to observe and be ready to intervene if things get out of hand