Pure Aquarium Evolution Aqua Cycling Juwel Rio 125

[deancolt45]

Hey all, I have a few questions and was hoping that I could get some answers if possible. Firstly, lets get this out of the way first, I just set up my new tank, well a week ago actually. I had every intention of cycling without fish and using the fish food method. I read a lot about the arguments for and against Fish cycling and on day 3 decided against it. Now the reason was possibly some impatience, also under the advice of a couple of friends that have their own aquariums and that of 3 of my local fish stores. They all did not agree on fishless for whatever reason, no attempt was made to sell me anything, just it was their advice and such so because of that, I opted for another method. Did a little research online, went back to two of the shops, one offered me some bottled bacteria so I took it, added what was needed, also planted my tank lightly at the back lightly. Now I read more and thought perhaps I should introduce 3 Danios, again spoke to the fish shop guys and they reckoned that the Pure Aquarium Evolution Aqua balls were an amazing product and thoroughly recommended, now at that point I did have a £53 bottle of something which name escapes me that was meant to cycle the tank immediately, so felt that they were being genuine and not trying to rip me off as they sold me something a fifth of the price.

I have been reluctant to post on forums as of now about this because I know there is a large stigma attached to cycling with fish in, however there is a lot of positive stuff scattered around the internet on these balls, so I would just like some opinions about this if possible. Thanks in advance. Anyone that has used them, what were your results? Was this with fish in or? My Amonia started at around 0.25, been doing water changes every other day of 30%, although now my amonia seems to be either 0 or just over, finding it hard to read with the liquid test kit to be honest, but definitely less than what it was.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

What are your nitrite readings?


Fish-in cycles are less necessary than they used to be, and a lot of work compared to a fishless cycle. But, if you have friends who have a tank, just ask them for some filter material to add to your tank and remove the ammonia/nitrite that way.


The LFS are always going to dissuade you from a fishless cycle though, because they don't make any money on that. Now, while they may not have seemed to sell you something immediately, they know that if you go with a fish-in cycle, they are going to have a customer faster. They may be a cynical viewpoint but it is definitely based on experience.


I know that there are lots of posts here potentially demonizing folks who don't do a fishless cycle, but it truly is the most humane way to go about it. Have you ever gotten ammonia in your lungs? It isn't pleasant, its down right torturous. Imagine spending a prolonged period with traces of that in your lungs, and no escape for fresh air. Would you want to do that to yourself?

 

[deancolt45]

Nitrite just over 0, nitrate again not much, 10-20 max.

If I sound a little vague with this it is because they are slightly off the 0 levels, this is using API liquid test kits btw. I don't want to say its the first value because the colours are definitely paler (if that makes sense)

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I use the API kit, so yes, I know what you mean.


What are your tap water stats? If they are solid zeros, then I'd do a partial water change, even if the test comes up as slightly above zero. Zero is really the goal, especially with nitrite. Ammonia can be less toxic than the levels you might get in the test, because it takes on the less toxic form. But, nitrite works in the same way for fish as carbon monoxide for humans.

A fish-in cycle can be just as good as a fishless cycle, if the aquarist is dedicated to testing daily and performing the necessary water changes as the tests indicate. The reason I recommend fishless cycles is that most newbie aquarists are not ready for the quantity of water changes necessary, nor are they aware of how small the initial stocking should be, nor how little food the fish actually require. Many will overstock a tiny tank, and overfeed, and have huge ammonia/nitrite spikes, up to 5ppm or more, and will do a 50% water change and feel that they have done enough. Some will even listen to horrible advice from the LFS, and not change the water while using these bacteria in a bottle products. Meanwhile the fish are slowly dying from the poison. So, I think that THOSE are the reasons that many around here are against fish-in cycles - not because of the proper process, but the reality of what happens many times. I can't tell you how many threads we see here from folks who got a lot of bad advice and are dealing with massive deaths from ammonia poisoning, etc. A fishless cycle provides TIME. Time to research so many things in the hobby that just get overlooked by many first timers.

 

[deancolt45]

I appreciate all your advice, after reading about the fishless vs fish cycle, honestly I figured I would be impatient, checking the water daily, felt I could keep on top of it as wanted this to be a hobby so perhaps was arrogant with my choice, but yeh, I genuinely felt at the time I could keep on top of it. Am actually testing the water twice a day and spent quite a lot of the Interpet Tablet kits already before I opted for the liquid kit My PH is around 7-7.5, as for the general hardness and stuff, was that what you were referring to? They were really high. Will check tomorrow but think they were near the max values.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I was referring to whether your tap water has any ammonia or nitrite in it normally.

I understand. I really do. I started a fishless cycle, and lasted about 4 weeks. Nitrate started to finally build up, but I never got through the final phase myself. A friend of mine had to dismantle his tank (actually a friend of a friend's). So, I took his stock (2 zebra danios, 3 harlequin rasboras, and 3 panda cories). I also took his filter media! ;-) So, my tank was actually fully cycled for the bioload I was putting into it from that, plus the extra bacteria that I had already cultivated. Even as it was, my first three days, I had ammonia readings of 0.25ppm. I changed 75% of the water each time, and everything went well from there. I recycled, when I upped the numbers of those fish, because they needed more for a shoal. And I found myself in a fish-in cycle. A week later I was fully cycled again, and have been ever since. So, I know where you've been. I really understand.


BTW, if you have Prime, it will detoxify the ammonia or nitrite in your tank for a period.

 

[deancolt45]

Okay havent checked the tap water yet, will definitely d it later when I get back, water seems to have changed a little so going to do a 50% water change asap.

Nitrites 0.25
Amonia 0.1
Nitrates 25

Has no one actually used the balls then referred to in the original post? Not entirely sure where I am at the moment with the cycle.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I have not used them, I think they are available only in the UK, but I could be wrong about that. I'm not familiar with them at all. There was a thread here a while back though... Thread link



You seem to be in phase 2, the nitrite spike. But at the same time you are getting ammonia readings still. So, its harder to be sure. Fish-in cycles aren't as "clean" as fishless. You still have a ways to go and with the nitrite starting to spike you will need to be ever vigilant against that. I'd suggest doing at least a 75% water change whenever the reading is at 0.25ppm. 50% will only take the level down to 0.125%, and will quickly rise back up again. Doing a 75% will drop is to 0.0625% and it will take longer to build back up to 0.25ppm again. I'd also use Prime as my dechlorinator to detoxify the ammonia and nitrite in between changes. (The myth that Prime will slow the cycle is just that, a myth. It doesn't slow it down, it merely helps the fish survive it.)

 

[deancolt45]

I am wondering if the amonia readings that I have quoted are in fact 0, i only say that because the water really is at most, showing the slightest tinge of green and I think it might be my inexperience saying there is some present. Am going to duplicate this thread in another forum ( a UK based one, to see if I can get some answers on these balls, because I think you are right, I can not seem to find them outside of the UK in relation to the people posting on them). Thanks again for all the help.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

There are a ton of UK folks on this board too, so hopefully there are some with experience with them that check in soon. Did you check the thread I linked above?


If the ammonia test has a tinge of green, then it isn't exactly zero.

 

[deancolt45]

Yeh sorry I read that a while ago before I became a member It is at the point where I think the zero reading has a tinge of green so I might just be colour blind now!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Read the color in natural daylight outside. ;-)

 

[MBOU]

The API ammonia test often shows up with a slight reading of ammonia when there is 'ammonium' present (after you have used dechlorinator in other words) as i was told by our API rep. Personally I wouldnt worry too much or panic over the amonia reading .25 I find that reacting to that slight reading can make it test worse if you suddenly do big water changes.

I find the Evo Aqua pure balls to be really good I find doing too many big water changes upsets the balance and slows down how well it works IMO. I have used it to cycle tanks and had no problems, found it worked better than most liquid biological supplements!

On another note... I dont think I have ever heard a shop advocating a Fish In cycle in the last 5 years, its such an out dated and unnecessary way of doing it.

For me, I add biological supplements 3 days running and on the 3rd day, add a few flakes of fish food. Leave the tank 2-3 days and I usually need to to a 25% -35% water change at this point and then I repeat the 3 days of biological supplement (pure balls or api quickstart) and a few more flakes of food than last time... all the time i watch the water and it has worked for me so many times. If the ammonia from the food isnt gone within 12 hours, I will just keep repeating process but never takesmore than 2-3 lots of the three days + food and a w/ after a few days.

Though admittedly I never stock heavily at first anyway... just a few small fish and build it up slowly... and to be fair, id be doing this even if i had cycled using household ammonia... only the ammonia method IMO was looooong, tedious, 10x more work for the same result and after doing it once, dont feel the need to do it again!

 

[deancolt45]

Hey thanks for the reply, my reading now seem to be

Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0.1
Nitrates 0.25

This being 12 hours after a water change or so. SO when you us the balls, do you stock from day one or at a different point when you are happy with the cycle?