Problems With The Monos Once Again!

[justinp]

The tank has "re-cycled" (for anyone who remembers my earlier problems...the tank crashed), the ammonia is 0, nitrite 0, and nitrate 10, temp. 80, Ph 7.5 (a bit low) and sg. 1.015.
There is plenty of oxygen and suface agitation. Everything seemed fine, fish were happy ect. until yesterday...
They were hovering near the bottom all day. Sort of hiding. Today they are quite dark and unhappy. They are all either near the bottom or swimming straight up and down the tank and "shimmying" (shaking quite fast, like they are trying to shake something off of their bodies). They also seem to be gasping slightly. I cant find anything on their bodies and they are still eating, although I have minimized feeding.

Once again, I have no idea what or why this is happening! Everything seemed to be getting so much better! Any Ideas...Do you need any more info?

Thanks

Justin

 

[nmonks]

Can you cool the tank down at all? Fish from marine habitats don't like the really warm conditions some freshwater fish go for. So, instead of 27C, try and aim for 25C. Too-warm water lacks oxygen, and monos are very sensitive to low oxygen concentrations.

Is there anything in the tank with them? Might anything have scared them? For example: slamming doors, loud TV sets, that sort of thing. When monos turn dark it is because they are stressed (except at night when they go dark anyway). So, if they look stressed, they probably are stressed.

Is the aquarium very open, or are there places the fish can hide? Monos do like some cover, whether it's plastic plants, rocky caves, or bogwood roots.

The low pH relative to the high salinity is a mystery to me. You should have a pH of at least 8 with an SG of 1.015. Are you using anything to buffer the water?

Cheers,

Neale

 

[justinp]

Can you cool the tank down at all? Fish from marine habitats don't like the really warm conditions some freshwater fish go for. So, instead of 27C, try and aim for 25C. Too-warm water lacks oxygen, and monos are very sensitive to low oxygen concentrations.

Is there anything in the tank with them? Might anything have scared them? For example: slamming doors, loud TV sets, that sort of thing. When monos turn dark it is because they are stressed (except at night when they go dark anyway). So, if they look stressed, they probably are stressed.

Is the aquarium very open, or are there places the fish can hide? Monos do like some cover, whether it's plastic plants, rocky caves, or bogwood roots.

The low pH relative to the high salinity is a mystery to me. You should have a pH of at least 8 with an SG of 1.015. Are you using anything to buffer the water?

Cheers,

Neale

There are no other fish in the tank with them right now, and nothing near the tank that would scare them. I have had these fish for a while and have seen them scared and stressed but this time seems different. Like they dont feel well, not just scared. Its almost like they are trying really hard to get away from the tank. They do have plenty of cover which they usually enjoy, especially when they are stressed but they wont seem to want to hide. Its very strange...They looked very stressed but are staying out in the open at the front of the tank...

I am using coral in the filter to buffer the water. I have just added that slowly over the past week or so. The Ph has risen from 7 to 7.5 or so this week.

Thanks
Justin

 

[AMS]

How long ago were the fish placed in the newly cycled tank? Were they drip acclimated? As Neale says, Monos turn dark when stressed. Something is obviuosly stressing them, though in your case I am at a loss as to what it could be.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, Neale is right. If you have an SG of 1.015 your pH should not be that low, more like the 8.2 range. What type of salt are you using?

 

[justinp]

Actually they were in this tank for a year and a half but when I moved I had problems and the tank crashed...I cycled the tank again with the monos in it (as Neale had advised) and it seemed to work well...They were happy. I have never had any Ph problems before and have been using the same salt for 3 years now...Kent Marine Salt. Usually the Ph has been a bit high if anything. I have tested the water again and again but keep getting good results.

I am watching the fish and they just seem very bothered by something but wont hide like they normally would. Its really weird! Although they are not black anymore...

Well Thanks Again and if you think of anything please let me know...

Justin

 

[nmonks]

Are you sure it's 1.015? Are you using a hydrometer or a refractometer. The former are easy to use but have a margin of error, while the latter are accurate but need calibrating and careful use.

OK, Kent Marine is a reasonable salt to use. Should have plenty of buffering potential. The pH, as AMS says, should be much higher than 7.5. So, there's two options:

1. You don't have as much salt per litre as you think you do
2. Something is removing the hardness more rapidly than the water changes can compensate

For the former, I'd basically think back and see if you are adding the right amount. Essentially, anything from an SG of 1.010 will be fine for these fish, so any given box of sea salt should make ~twice as much brackish water as marine water. If the box says "for 100 gallons", then you should be able to make 200 gallons of brackish.

For the latter, hardness gets absorbed by acidity. Acidity comes from organic decay (waste/food/plants), bogwood, and peat.

Your mains supply of water may alternatively be acidic out of the tap/faucet. Measure it. If it is less than pH 7.0, then it is probably a good idea to add a pH buffer to the water before adding the salt. Look into obtaining some cichlid aquarium salt. This is stuff that mimics the hardness of the African lakes. That will buffer the water very effectively.

Now, monos are extremely hardy, and they aren't going to be killed by pH 7.5, or even pH 7.0; but over the long term they will be stressed, and stress leads to increased vulnerability to disease, and disease can kill fish, even monos. So I do think you need to winkle out what is keeping the pH and hardness so low. Can you give as a hardness reading? It should be at least 20 degrees GH or "very hard" on a general scale.

Cheers,

Neale

EDIT: Forgot to mention, Neale is right. If you have an SG of 1.015 your pH should not be that low, more like the 8.2 range. What type of salt are you using?

been using the same salt for 3 years now...Kent Marine Salt. Usually the Ph has been a bit high if anything. I have tested the water again and again but keep getting good results.

 

[justinp]

Are you sure it's 1.015? Are you using a hydrometer or a refractometer. The former are easy to use but have a margin of error, while the latter are accurate but need calibrating and careful use.

OK, Kent Marine is a reasonable salt to use. Should have plenty of buffering potential. The pH, as AMS says, should be much higher than 7.5. So, there's two options:

1. You don't have as much salt per litre as you think you do
2. Something is removing the hardness more rapidly than the water changes can compensate

For the former, I'd basically think back and see if you are adding the right amount. Essentially, anything from an SG of 1.010 will be fine for these fish, so any given box of sea salt should make ~twice as much brackish water as marine water. If the box says "for 100 gallons", then you should be able to make 200 gallons of brackish.

For the latter, hardness gets absorbed by acidity. Acidity comes from organic decay (waste/food/plants), bogwood, and peat.

Your mains supply of water may alternatively be acidic out of the tap/faucet. Measure it. If it is less than pH 7.0, then it is probably a good idea to add a pH buffer to the water before adding the salt. Look into obtaining some cichlid aquarium salt. This is stuff that mimics the hardness of the African lakes. That will buffer the water very effectively.

Now, monos are extremely hardy, and they aren't going to be killed by pH 7.5, or even pH 7.0; but over the long term they will be stressed, and stress leads to increased vulnerability to disease, and disease can kill fish, even monos. So I do think you need to winkle out what is keeping the pH and hardness so low. Can you give as a hardness reading? It should be at least 20 degrees GH or "very hard" on a general scale.

Cheers,

Neale

EDIT: Forgot to mention, Neale is right. If you have an SG of 1.015 your pH should not be that low, more like the 8.2 range. What type of salt are you using?

been using the same salt for 3 years now...Kent Marine Salt. Usually the Ph has been a bit high if anything. I have tested the water again and again but keep getting good results.

Yes the tap water here is lower than 7, its like 6.5... I use a hydrometer to measure SG. I have done some tests to make sure its working and it seems fine. I did check the hardness and I forget what it was but way too low.

One of the monos is actually now looking really bad, hes kinda on his side near the middle front of the tank, just sort of hovering...This just seems so strange...

 

[nmonks]

OK, now I'm worried. You need to get that pH up. At least until you can set up something to fix the problem permanently, go buy some pH 8 buffer from your local tropical fish store. Follow the directions on the packet.

One thing about adding calcareous sand to a filter that everyone forgets is that after a few weeks it gets covered in bacteria and stops working. This is why I add it to the filter, not the aquarium. What I do is have two lots calacerous filter medium, one on the go at any one time. After 2 weeks, I take out that and replace it with the clean stuff. Then, I take the old stuff, clean it in hot water with washing up liquid, and then rinse and leave to soak in a bucket of water for a few hours to get every last bit of soap out. Then dry off and pack away somewhere dust-free until it's needed.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[justinp]

Well bad news about the Monos...Two have died overnight and the other two are close to joining them. This has been by far the hardest fish to loose, after having them for over two and a half years and watching them grow up. Unfortunatley I still have no idea what happened, I have noticed that the two who are still alive this morning were gasping quite a bit and showing the signs of ammonia poisoning or lack of oxygen (gasping, red gills, sitting at bottom, swimmming suddenly and quickly, ect.). But there should be plenty of oxygen, there are no ammonia or nitrites present in the water, the Ph is now 7.8 and Ive lowered the temp. Is there something Im missing? If something poisonous got into the tank would this be the result? Could there be something eating up the oxygen in the tank?

Unfortunatly its too late for these fish, but I really would like to find out what happened if possible, or at least what may have happened. These guys meant a lot to me and its really hard to let them go, I dont want them to die in vain. I also need to figure out if this tank is safe for new fish (I dont want to leave it empty as it will obviously "crash") but Im scared to put anything in there right now...Any advice on where I should go from here with this tank?

Thank you all for your help. It has really helped me time and time again!

Justin