Problems Cycling A Tank

[beebadoo]

Hi,

I’ve been lurking on here for a few weeks trying to harvest information

I’ve just started cycling my new tank, its 75lts, with an eheim filter, and sand substrate.

I went to the lfs a couple of days ago and came back with 5 of these

http/i64.photobucket.com/albums/h197/beebadoo/DSC02066.jpg
(which i thought would be fine - i cycled my 30lt biorb using 5 zebra danois 6 months ago and they are all still alive )

Apparently they are fine for cycling a tank? -can anyone identify them for me

But…Unfortunately I’ve already lost 3 in the two nights I’ve had them!

My water parameters are:

Temp = 26 Celsius
Ph 7.4
Nitrate 10ppm (mg/l)
Ammonia between 0.25 and 0.5 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm

I’m using an ehiem aqua ball filter with some poly wool in the top, then a sponge, then some ball things in the bottom.

So… what have I done wrong (probably plenty!)

Thanks in advance...

 

[mark.w.jones]

Tanks run chemically on the nitrogen cycle. Well worth understanding before you start cycling.

Ammonia NH3, resulting from fish poo, dead plants, leftover food etc. Highly toxic to fish.

GETS CHANGED BY BACTERIA IN FILTER MEDIA, FILTER TUBES, GRAVEL INTO

Nitrites NO2, still toxic to fish, not quite as bad as ammonia.

GETS CHANGED BY BACTERIA IN FILTER MEDIA, FILTER TUBES, GRAVEL INTO

Nitrates NO3, used by live plants as a fertilizer

PLANTS CONVERT IT TO NUTRIENTS AND DISSOLVED OXYGEN IN THE WATER

Cycle complete.

In an uncycled, new tank, the bacteria mentioned above are not present. They will only begin to grow and multiply when ammonia is in the tank. For many years fish keepers used to add a few hardy fish, like the ones you got, basically as poo machines to provide ammonia.

In the early stages of a new tank maturing, ammonia and nitrite levels are at poisonous levels in your tank and will be until the bacteria needed to convert them grow in your filter. This takes around 2 - 3 weeks in a tank like yours but longer in bigger tanks. The fish are basically living in hugely uncomfortable surroundings and often die at this stage. If they do survive, as many do, they will be hugely weakened by the experience and often die in the near future anyway but were almost treated as throwaway fish anyway by lot of fish keepers.

Now the majority of members on this site do the fishless cycling method. This uses ammonia hydroxide solution in a chemical form to replace the fish poo. I would highly recommend it to anyone, even beginners like myself.

If you want to consider it, but only if your other fish die or you take them back / give them away, read this post:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...3861&hl=methods

Get the following:

1 medicine dropper (often found in fish meds)
1 liquid water test kit for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH
I bottle of ammonia hydroxide solution. (Homebase home cleaning products section).

And follow the add & wait method. The main advantage IMO is that you can then fully stock your tank with all fish from day 1 once youve finished.

Otherwise, buy a few more fish to cycle with. Most people seem to have used Zebra Danios from what Ive read. Dont know if thats what youve got. But expect a few deaths along the way. You can then add a few more fish in 3 - 4 weeks time. Then the same again after that. And so on. Its probably a good idea to still get a liquid water test kit even if you are going to do this method thou.

Good luck

 

[beebadoo]

Hi thanks for the reply - very informative

I'm seriously considering moving the remaining two fish into my biorb - (already has 5 red danois, 4 platys, and two red finned sharks) and doing a fishless cycle.

But, I still don't see why I have already lost 3. I barely have any ammonia, nitrates or nitrites.

I know this sounds stupid, but the fish constantly seem to be fighting against the water flow cause by the filter…. Could this have an impact?

Cheers

 

[diburning]

Tanks run chemically on the nitrogen cycle. Well worth understanding before you start cycling.

Ammonia NH3, resulting from fish poo, dead plants, leftover food etc. Highly toxic to fish.

GETS CHANGED BY BACTERIA IN FILTER MEDIA, FILTER TUBES, GRAVEL INTO

Nitrites NO2, still toxic to fish, not quite as bad as ammonia.

GETS CHANGED BY BACTERIA IN FILTER MEDIA, FILTER TUBES, GRAVEL INTO

Nitrates NO3, used by live plants as a fertilizer

PLANTS CONVERT IT TO NUTRIENTS AND DISSOLVED OXYGEN IN THE WATER

Cycle complete.

In an uncycled, new tank, the bacteria mentioned above are not present. They will only begin to grow and multiply when ammonia is in the tank. For many years fish keepers used to add a few hardy fish, like the ones you got, basically as poo machines to provide ammonia.

In the early stages of a new tank maturing, ammonia and nitrite levels are at poisonous levels in your tank and will be until the bacteria needed to convert them grow in your filter. This takes around 2 - 3 weeks in a tank like yours but longer in bigger tanks. The fish are basically living in hugely uncomfortable surroundings and often die at this stage. If they do survive, as many do, they will be hugely weakened by the experience and often die in the near future anyway but were almost treated as throwaway fish anyway by lot of fish keepers.

Now the majority of members on this site do the fishless cycling method. This uses ammonia hydroxide solution in a chemical form to replace the fish poo. I would highly recommend it to anyone, even beginners like myself.

If you want to consider it, but only if your other fish die or you take them back / give them away, read this post:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...3861&hl=methods

Get the following:

1 medicine dropper (often found in fish meds)
1 liquid water test kit for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH
I bottle of ammonia hydroxide solution. (Homebase home cleaning products section).

And follow the add & wait method. The main advantage IMO is that you can then fully stock your tank with all fish from day 1 once youve finished.

Otherwise, buy a few more fish to cycle with. Most people seem to have used Zebra Danios from what Ive read. Dont know if thats what youve got. But expect a few deaths along the way. You can then add a few more fish in 3 - 4 weeks time. Then the same again after that. And so on. Its probably a good idea to still get a liquid water test kit even if you are going to do this method thou.

Good luck

Heres an explanation in SIMPLE ENGLISH:

Ammonia gets broken down into nitrites which are in turn broken down into nitrates then broken down into Nitrogen gas which evaporates from your tank.

that is the aerobic cycle. the anaerobic cycle (doesn't need oxygen) changes nitrates back into nitrites which go back into the aerobic cycle.

 

[mark.w.jones]

Hi thanks for the reply - very informative

I'm seriously considering moving the remaining two fish into my biorb - (already has 5 red danois, 4 platys, and two red finned sharks) and doing a fishless cycle.

But, I still don't see why I have already lost 3. I barely have any ammonia, nitrates or nitrites.

I know this sounds stupid, but the fish constantly seem to be fighting against the water flow cause by the filter…. Could this have an impact?

Cheers

Id go for moving them personally and then start a fishless cycle. Even very small amounts of something toxic can kill a fish. Especially if they are already weak for whatever reason. Transport to LFS, poor care at lfs. Good luck

 

[mark7616]

yep go for a fishless cycle.

 

[Torrean]

I'm seriously considering moving the remaining two fish into my biorb - (already has 5 red danois, 4 platys, and two red finned sharks) and doing a fishless cycle.

how big is this biorb. If I remember correctly most are quite small. red finned sharks need atleast 30 gallons and if kept more than one in a tank will kill eachother once they reach around 3 inches. danios need atleast 30 gallons too because they are very active fish and enjoy the space. They can probably survive in smaller tanks but they probably will not thrive.

Now to your danios. I don't think you've got enough of an ammonia build up there to kill your fish so quickly. I believe you probably just got a bad batch of danios. (Sick, inbred, possible poorly acclimated) I've had 5 danios die within a week for no apparent reason(true this was during a cycle but I had kept my levels very low) I would not add them to your biorb because if I am correct about the size it is overstocked. not to mention that your danios may be sick. Putting them in with your other fish would potentially introduce dangerous diseases into your healthy tank. I'm not sure what kind of filter you have in your biorb but if it is undergravel (which I think it is) then you can take some gravel off your top layer and put it in a clean stocking. Then hang that stocking in your cycling tank. This will seed your filter with bacteria lessening the severity and length of your cycle. You will still need to monito your water levels and do water changes as needed but your danios will thank you for it.