Problem With Crypts And My Liquid Ferts?

[trojannemo]

last wednesday i re-did the tank, this time using Eco-Complete substrate. i have 2.3WPG of 6,700K T5-HO lighting and i'm using the entire line of SeaChem nutrients (Flourish, Excel, Trace, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Iron + Flourish root tabs).
in the space of this week, all the plants I started with have grown and put out new shoots and leaves. even the crypts have "grown up"...however, they keep losing a leaf or two a day. it seems that even though the plant is growing and getting color, an individual leaf withers away and kind of "melts" before it gets separated from the main plant.

is this the famous "crypt melt" i have heard of? i'm assuming this is being caused by one of the nutrients i'm dosing being harmful to the crypts? i have kept crypts before using only Seachem Flourish on regular gravel and it was all good, so i'm worried about this problem happening now

any suggestions greatly appreciated! thanks!

 

[Sari]

last wednesday i re-did the tank, this time using Eco-Complete substrate. i have 2.3WPG of 6,700K T5-HO lighting and i'm using the entire line of SeaChem nutrients (Flourish, Excel, Trace, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Iron + Flourish root tabs).
in the space of this week, all the plants I started with have grown and put out new shoots and leaves. even the crypts have "grown up"...however, they keep losing a leaf or two a day. it seems that even though the plant is growing and getting color, an individual leaf withers away and kind of "melts" before it gets separated from the main plant.

is this the famous "crypt melt" i have heard of? i'm assuming this is being caused by one of the nutrients i'm dosing being harmful to the crypts? i have kept crypts before using only Seachem Flourish on regular gravel and it was all good, so i'm worried about this problem happening now

any suggestions greatly appreciated! thanks!

First of all, if you have a nutrient substrate, you won't need root tabs so you can stop using them. What you describe, sounds like you have a case of crypt melt indeed. It is very common when crypts get moved, even if it is from one tank to another in the same household. Since you only just did your tank, it seems to be this that has caused this. You should keep watching the situation but not do anything drastic at the moment. You should see new growth within 3 weeks. Just remember that sometimes crypts melt all the way to the rhizome, but they can still recover!

 

[SuperColey1]

You have a lot of light but don't mention if you are using pressurised CO2 or not. 2.3WPG of T8 would need it. 2.3WPG of T5HO will be equivalent to approx double due to their efficiency and less restrike issues etc.

I would work on the assumption that you have 4WPG+ equivalent on the old outdated T12 WPG rule and therefore pressurised CO2 would be a must.

You have crypt melt to answer the first question. After a month you should see some lovely shiny healthy leaves on the plant. Remove the decaying ones as soon as you spot them so they do not cause too much amonnia to trigger localised algae on the new leaves as they come through.

Crypts don't need the amount of light you have but as long as you keep on top of the dosing and CO2 they should be fine.

Tank size would be a help on deciding you actual light level. I have made the assumption you have the average 20-40USG tank. If it is a Nano then your light will not be as high, if you have a 100USG+ then it will be super high etc.

AC

 

[trojannemo]

sorry for the missing information guys.

the tank is about 33G, but since there is considerable gravel, wood and rock, i use a 30G basis for my dosing and stuff.

i am well aware that with T5-HO lights i'm way over the T8/T12 standard. i also know i should have CO2. i don't have it at the moment. it's not an option at the moment due to strenuous finances. hopefully by next spring i'll be able to get a semi-automatic pressurized system, as i've been told for my size tank the DIY kits wouldn't do well.

and this is not the crypt i have kept before. that one went to my girlfriend's female betta tank. in other words, this is a brand-new spanking set of crypts i bought when i had the tank torn down and i put in before adding water to the tank.

thanks for the advice. i'll just keep on top of my nutrients and hope that they'll bounce back

 

[SuperColey1]

The tank in my sig is a 33G. I wish you luck waiting until spring for the CO2. With that light the plants will soon starve with not enough C source because the highlight will be driving them to grow further. They will then not uptake the ferts you add!!! We all know what the end result of that would be.

My suggestion would be to use 1 WPG (as you see in the pic in my sig on the right) and lower the dosing and pray you have limited enough until you can go pressurised. At that point I would slowly increase the lighting over a few weeks up to the level you are wanting.

The chain in the planted tank is light---->Carbon---->nutrient. The light drives plant growth, the carbon facilitates that growth and the nutrient feeds the plant whilst growing. The plant needs all 3 in a high enough dose for the light it is given. Therefore if you can limit light then the plant requires less C and less nutrient. With no CO2 addition I would either suggest using 2 x 2Ltr DIY or not doing water changes until you go pressurised to maintain a more/stable CO2 supply at the same time as limiting the light.

AC

 

[trojannemo]

My suggestion would be to use 1 WPG (as you see in the pic in my sig on the right) and lower the dosing and pray you have limited enough until you can go pressurised. At that point I would slowly increase the lighting over a few weeks up to the level you are wanting.

well my light system is a Hagen Glo 2x 39W. meaning i can for now take out one of the tubes, ending with 1.3WPG or so of light. when putting it back, i dont have the option to put it back slowly as i'd just have to put the tube back in, and bam, back to 2.6WPG or so?

when i bought the lights, i knew i couldn't get too much light because i'd need co2...that's why i got this system giving me 2WPG...nobody mentioned at the time that T5-HO would mean i'm running close to 4WPG or more

 

[SuperColey1]

When you go back to 2 lights go down to 6 hours photoperiod and increase it ½hour or an hour each week for the next four until you reach your 8-10 hours. Will have a similar result.

W for W T5HO is equal to T8. It is the efficiency, spread and restrike differences that lead me and others to conclude the 2x ish equivalent.

Some people say it is more than 2, some say it is 1¼, others say what a load of rubbish. lol

AC

 

[trojannemo]

well that failed. when i take out one of the bulbs from the system, it comes on for about 3 seconds and then it turns off. it seems it will only operate with both lights in

my light period is right now approx. 7 hours by timer. since i can't remove the bulb, can i reduce the photo period? to how much? my only other alternative at the moment would be to use a DIY light fixture i had setup before when i thought i only had 2WPG worth of light. it's a T8 30W bulb that's supposed to be "daylight" but looks really yellow compared to my 6,700K T5s. that would give me 1WPG of T8 light...

or i can do the DIY co2 with 2 bottles. which of the two would be a better option? my only concern with that would be finding silicone tubing for the CO2 transfer

 

[Rlon35]

last wednesday i re-did the tank, this time using Eco-Complete substrate. i have 2.3WPG of 6,700K T5-HO lighting and i'm using the entire line of SeaChem nutrients (Flourish, Excel, Trace, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Iron + Flourish root tabs).
in the space of this week, all the plants I started with have grown and put out new shoots and leaves. even the crypts have "grown up"...however, they keep losing a leaf or two a day. it seems that even though the plant is growing and getting color, an individual leaf withers away and kind of "melts" before it gets separated from the main plant.

is this the famous "crypt melt" i have heard of? i'm assuming this is being caused by one of the nutrients i'm dosing being harmful to the crypts? i have kept crypts before using only Seachem Flourish on regular gravel and it was all good, so i'm worried about this problem happening now

any suggestions greatly appreciated! thanks!

First of all, if you have a nutrient substrate, you won't need root tabs so you can stop using them. What you describe, sounds like you have a case of crypt melt indeed. It is very common when crypts get moved, even if it is from one tank to another in the same household. Since you only just did your tank, it seems to be this that has caused this. You should keep watching the situation but not do anything drastic at the moment. You should see new growth within 3 weeks. Just remember that sometimes crypts melt all the way to the rhizome, but they can still recover!

Yeah....seems to make sense...I had moved my crypt back a couple inches, in the gravel,and I experienced a similar situation, but I only has to remove one leaf.

 

[SuperColey1]

IS it the complete luminaire type or the ballast and end caps type?

My only suggestion if it is the latter (other than rewiring) would be to attach 1 tube to the wall behind whatever your cabinet is sat on. I assume the cables to the endcaps are long enough to do this. The light will be on but not over the tank.

Otherwise I would say go down to 6 hours and add the DIY. just get silicon airline for now. Readily available on internet, hardware stores, pet stores etc.

Ac

 

[Syphoniera]

last wednesday i re-did the tank, this time using Eco-Complete substrate. i have 2.3WPG of 6,700K T5-HO lighting and i'm using the entire line of SeaChem nutrients (Flourish, Excel, Trace, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Iron + Flourish root tabs).
in the space of this week, all the plants I started with have grown and put out new shoots and leaves. even the crypts have "grown up"...however, they keep losing a leaf or two a day. it seems that even though the plant is growing and getting color, an individual leaf withers away and kind of "melts" before it gets separated from the main plant.

is this the famous "crypt melt" i have heard of? i'm assuming this is being caused by one of the nutrients i'm dosing being harmful to the crypts? i have kept crypts before using only Seachem Flourish on regular gravel and it was all good, so i'm worried about this problem happening now

any suggestions greatly appreciated! thanks!

First of all, if you have a nutrient substrate, you won't need root tabs so you can stop using them. What you describe, sounds like you have a case of crypt melt indeed. It is very common when crypts get moved, even if it is from one tank to another in the same household. Since you only just did your tank, it seems to be this that has caused this. You should keep watching the situation but not do anything drastic at the moment. You should see new growth within 3 weeks. Just remember that sometimes crypts melt all the way to the rhizome, but they can still recover!

Yeah....seems to make sense...I had moved my crypt back a couple inches, in the gravel,and I experienced a similar situation, but I only has to remove one leaf.

Same here; I lose anywhere from every fricking leaf to none in planting/replanting them, although they do tend to send up new shoots very rapidly even as this occurs.
As far as I know it's standard.
Of course, I don't know very far...

 

[SuperColey1]

Crypts are funny plants really.

they nearly always melt when first put into the tank due to the change in their environment. much like if you plonk fish straight in without aclimitising they die. Crypts don't respond to acclimitising before you try it. lol

Then once in the tank you move them around. the water parameters are the same (or so we may think) and some peopl have melt again, others have none.

It must be something to do with certain water parameters. Mayeb in hard water they are less prone to the variables, maybe it is soft water. Mine tend to melt at the slightest movement and my water is quite hard (so Im told.)

AC

 

[trojannemo]

IS it the complete luminaire type or the ballast and end caps type?

My only suggestion if it is the latter (other than rewiring) would be to attach 1 tube to the wall behind whatever your cabinet is sat on. I assume the cables to the endcaps are long enough to do this. The light will be on but not over the tank.

Otherwise I would say go down to 6 hours and add the DIY. just get silicon airline for now. Readily available on internet, hardware stores, pet stores etc.

Ac

it's a compact system with two tubes with the ballasts and the end caps. unfortunately though, there's no "ballast cable" that's going anywhere. i can either put the bulb in, or take it out. can't stretch it anywhere.
so i'm going to lower my light to 6 hours (6pm-midnight) and hopefully by this weekend if time allows i'll be doing the DIY CO2 with two bottles...now to read up on all the DIY info i can find

 

[Syphoniera]

Crypts are funny plants really.

they nearly always melt when first put into the tank due to the change in their environment. much like if you plonk fish straight in without aclimitising they die. Crypts don't respond to acclimitising before you try it. lol

Then once in the tank you move them around. the water parameters are the same (or so we may think) and some peopl have melt again, others have none.

It must be something to do with certain water parameters. Mayeb in hard water they are less prone to the variables, maybe it is soft water. Mine tend to melt at the slightest movement and my water is quite hard (so Im told.)

AC

Speaking as one who knows nothing, I do suspect that at least one factor is related to ticklish roots.
I'd planted one (evidently not quite deeply enough) which had been doing well (by my standards, at any rate) and recovered rapidly from a partial melt, despite later having some root exposed higher up and slowing in growth from that point.
As I was hesitant to disturb it again, I tried moving some of the substrate back over on top, but the substrate's very light, and I have a baby Bristlenose in that tank at the moment...
So I tried sinking it a bit deeper in the same spot, only this time it melted right down and I'm left hoping for a comeback.
I didn't actually move it, but I expect I did bruise the roots a bit, despite the soft substrate and every effort to be gentle.
(And the jungle - in the form of chain swords - is moving in, although I'm still saving a spot, in case.)

As you state above, plants in ideal conditions would likely be more resiliant and less prone to melting - and I do have soft water.
But my personal theory is that they have ticklish roots and resent the indignity so greatly that they wish the earth would swallow them up.
It provides some faint amusement from an otherwise decidedly unamusing situation.

 

[Sari]

While you are waiting to get the co2 system, you could always try either easy life easy carbo or seachem excel. They are liquid form carbon that are dosed in every day or so and will provide your plants much needed carbon. They also have algicidal properties so risk of algal takeover is much reduced!