Potential Ph Acidic Shock

[MalawiHero]

I recently moved my 55g lake malawi tank from my fathers to my new house. I checked the levels after the move (about 1 week) on a regular basis and everything has been checking out fine. Well recently I visited a LFS and purchased an Apple Snail and a 2in female (crabro) bumblee. Two days after my new addition the new bumblebee broke out with some serious ick, which ofcourse is slowely spreading. I relealized my new addition was the same species as a 6.5 inch male (crabro) wich probably caused the serious stress on my female bumblebee (crabro). My immediate reaction was moving the bumblebee to a 20g backup tank I keep cycled with a full grown 4.5 inch armored cat fish. I treated both tanks with a blue ick removing ink that was added at 1 drop per gallon. Then droped 6 ick stopping tablets to the 55g in addition. 10 minutes after moving the bumblebee into the 20g all signs of ick disappeared on it. Wierd Huh? Well the 55g tank was still struggleing with a few spots on each fish. My immediate reaction then was to check the levels of the water.

Amm: 0ppm
PH 6.4 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Way to low right? !!!!!!!!!
NitrITe: 0 ppm
NitrATe: 20ppm

So in reaction to that i I did a 15g water change on the 55g attempting to slowely raise the PH levels. I added more blue ink ick removing dropplets after that and then went out to eat. Upon returning I saw all my fish at the top sucking air at the top. INSTANT PANIC! I checked the levels again and read:

Amm: 1ppm
PH 7.8 Did not think a 15g change would increase it so fast!
NirIte: 0ppm
NitrAte: 40ppm

I added more water clarifier(sp) to the water instantly to drop the AMM levels. Guess I should have checked the ammonia levels from my tap water first.

AMM is now around .25 - .5 kind of hard to read. they are still breathing at the top of the water! By the way I'm using the good liquid test.

My fish are acting like I'm about to loose one by one real quick. What should I do I have limited time.....please...

Are they in shock from the PH levels raising so fast? I have liguid PH downer.. Should i bring it down a little bit? and do 5g water changes to bring it up??

I'm scared.....

 

[MalawiHero]

Well I lost half of my tank last night... I moved every fish I could to a cycled 20g tank. I emptied the 55g completely, refilled it and and tested the water yet again. The stats matched th 20g perfectly.

AMM 0
PH 7.8
Nirtite 0
Nirtrate 0

It seemed like the fish recouperated(sp) almost instantly after moving them to the 20g despite the fact the ph levels were 7.8 there too. After I took temp readings to asure both tanks were the same temp I began moving the fish I had left back to the 55g. Survivors:

1 x female bumblebee
1 x male yellow lab
1 x common pleco
1 x bristlenose pleco
1 x female clown pleco
1 x red devil (2in) Currently awaiting arrival of my 100g tank to transfer her/him too.
1 x Red jewel cichlid (staying at the bottom and my not make it)

Can anyone tell me what just happened here and why the fish were fine with a 7.8 ph level in the 20g?

 

[WILDER]

What your tap ph.
Don't use ph adjuster as there more trouble than there worth.
What subsrate and ornaments do you have in the tank.
I would post this thread in tropical tropical discussion or beginners more members go over there.

 

[forby3]

i have lake malawis and using things like ocean roack and coral gravel help keep ph a high level when i do a water change i.e 25% the levels dont change rapidly like yours did they do go up but not to much to cause worry

 

[MalawiHero]

What your tap ph.
Don't use ph adjuster as there more trouble than there worth.
What subsrate and ornaments do you have in the tank.
I would post this thread in tropical tropical discussion or beginners more members go over there.

My tap PH is 7.8
My substrate is all white sand purchased at the LFS
ornaments are simply lavarock. Mind you this tank has been running fine for a year until this move and the first water change.

 

[WILDER]

You must have something in the tank that changing your ph if the tap ph is 7.8
Don't know much about lava rock apart from the rock can have heavy metals.
No bogwood in the tank.

Ammonia can alter ph but not that much swing I think.

 

[WILDER]

I would post in new to the hobby. Get more help over there.
Just copy and paste your thread.

 

[forby3]

maybe it was the p.h of the water where your dad lives to where you live now

 

[WILDER]

These are the signs of ph shock.

pH Shock

As its name suggests this condition occurs when a fish is introduced to quickly into a new environment which has a very different pH from the one it came from, when the pH is adjusted to quickly and the fish have little or no time to adjust themselves, or when the pH is to far outside the fishes normal range.

It is very important that any change in water chemistry is made slowly and fish should never be exposed to changes of pH greater than 0.5 of one unit on the pH scale in either direction.

Avoidance is by far the best solution because in most cases the symptoms don't appear until the second or third day by which time the damage has been done and the fish will probably die.

A fish suffering from this condition will show all the typical signs of shock -

Lying on the bottom and paying little or no attention to its surroundings and ignoring potential threats.
It may even lay on its side or go upside down completely.
There could be other signs to, related to Acidosis and Alkalosis
Excessive mucus production.
Rapid breathing.
Swollen abdomen. (Alkalosis only).
If the condition is allowed to go on for one or two days then the chances of a successful remedy are greatly reduced because a lot of damage will have taken place. If the symptoms are spotted early enough there are a couple of things that will help.

Begin to return the pH to the original pH in steps of 0.4 of one unit on the pH scale and allow 3 hrs in between the adjustments. Make these adjustments until the pH is returned to a safe and satisfactory level.
Treat the tank with a broad spectrum anti-Bacteria/Fungus compound to prevent secondary infections of the Skin and Gills.
Prevention is easy. A successful treatment isn't!
PH SHOCK LINK
http/groups.msn.com/FishHealth/phshock.msnw

 

[MalawiHero]

maybe it was the p.h of the water where your dad lives to where you live now

Nah, my fathers ph cam out at 8.0. Besides I moved the tank, filled it with my new house water and it ran fine for a few weeks.

----------------------------

I visted a local cichlid only fish store. His opinion is that my water conditioner did not remove potential Chlori-something and that the PH difference shocked them. Quilty as charge i brought 5g buckets straght from the tub to the tank immediatly after conditioning. I currently use Aquasafe as a water conditioner and will be changing brands.

[quote post='2333596' date='Apr 6 2009, 05:41 PM']Begin to return the pH to the original pH in steps of 0.4 of one unit on the pH scale and allow 3 hrs in between the adjustments. Make these adjustments until the pH is returned to a safe and satisfactory level.
Treat the tank with a broad spectrum anti-Bacteria/Fungus compound to prevent secondary infections of the Skin and Gills.
Prevention is easy. A successful treatment isn't![/quote]

How sould one go about this method without PH adjusters?

Ps. Thanks for your time and help so far.

 

[WILDER]

It depends if you want your ph up or down.
For fetching ph down you can add bogwood or run some peat in the filter.
There safe ways of lowering and raising ph.
You will get alot more help over in tropical discussion. Alot of members who know alot about ph.

 

[forby3]

malawihero my malawis seem fine with coral gravel , alot of ocean rock for them to hide in and these 2 things go to help you ph balance

 

[rabbut]

It won't be pH shock in that pH range, it's too smaller difference to caurse issues The caurse of the issue would appear to be fish introduced without Qarrenteen from a source you diden't know, and Ammonia poisoning more recently in the main tank.

Medications can mess up water test results, so take that pH reading with a pinch of salt. Ammonia tests are usualy accurate though..

Get onto a 50% waterchange. It's advisable to heat the water to temperature before addition to the tank for a waterchange of that size, though I tend not to bother...

Track your stats for the next few days, waterchanging if either Ammonia or Nitrite are raised, and keep an eye on them

Can the two meds you mixed be mixed safely according to the instructions? If you are unsure, or it isn't clearly indicated on the bottle that these two specific meds can be used in conjunction with eachother, can you post the active ingrediants in the meds please? They sould be listed on the bottle somewhere

All the best
Rabbut

 

[MalawiHero]

From this point foreward I'm going to test the water daily and change water accordingly. I would like to thanks everyone for there replies and will use other forum sections.