Possibly Restarting, Advice Needed

[boardy]

Hi,

I'm thinking about restarting on my tank as I think I messed up with planting but maybe someone can tell me otherwise.

I currently have a 108l tank with a 1" layer of TetraPlant Complete substrate, with about another 1" of Roman white gravel on top. I've decided I don't really like the white Roman gravel as it's just not very natural looking, I used it in my 60l Oranda tank but it's just not right in the tropical tank, hence thinking of restarting the planting.

I've been looking at ADA substrates, but I'm unsure of how to actually do it I've seen a tank on here with a log on what was done with slate to make caves and it looks brilliant, so I was thinking of trying the same sort of thing with my tank.

My current setup is -

108l 36" Clear Seal tank, on a Fluval Roma 200 cabinet
Fluval 205 Canister filter
2 x APS 50 pumps running 5 air stones, so I can have 2 on, 3 on, all 5 on, or all 5 off, all controlled with X10 PC controllers.
1 x 30W 36" T8 Natural tropical sunlight tube
1 x Hydor Blue LED spot, pointing into the hood for night blue effect. I will be replacing this with 2 x 12" adjustable LED strips soon.
Tetra C02 injector, just to try to perk the plants up, never really use it but it's there if I want to. Want to upgrade this but the tank needs work first.
200W internal heater set to 26c, keeps the water at a constant 25.5c

3 x Platy (1M 2F)
3 x Guppy (1M 2F)
12 x Neon Tetra
5 x Diamond Tetra
2 x Pleco

At the moment there are 6 plants in the tank which I've seperated into the individual cuttings and bulbs to plant around the tank. I will uplad pics to my Flickr account later and post a link if anyone wants to see what I have at the moment.

As I said, I'm not sure I've done it right as this is my first planted aquarium and I want to do it right first time really. I'm thinking of buying a 36" tank plant collection off a website I found which consists of 95 plants. If you need to know what plants are included to give advice I can post the list up. I'm thinking of upgrading the lighting but I'm not sure as I only have 1 30W T8 inverter at the moment, any advice on the lighting would also be great. I've heard good things about the Interpret Triplus tubes so was thinking of 1 or 2 of those.

I currently use all Tetra liquid ferts to put in the water, so any advice on ferts etc is also much appreciated.

Sorry about the huge post but wasn't sure what info you needed to help, if you need anything else I'll post it up.

Cheers
Adam

 

[Colin_T]

Hi Adam

I'm not sure on the TetraPlant complete substrate but if it is anything like laterite (red clay in powder form) then it should be fine for the plants. Personally I like to use laterite balls (damp laterite rolled into small balls and then allowed to dry) and place them under the individual plants. It keeps the gravel cleaner and doesn't mess things up when you gravel clean the tank.

As for lighting you can increase the amount. I had a 4x14inx18in high planted tank with 4x 36watt fluoros running on it for 16 hours a day. The plants did great. A single 30 watt globe on your tank is probably not enough. I would probably use 3 globes. Try to get globes with a Kelvin (K) rating between 6500K and 10,000K. 6500K is generally considered daylight and 10,000K is normally used on marine tanks but gives you a nice clear light that is fine for plants.

Terta liquid fertiliser should be used every few days rather than once a week. Small amounts more frequently will give the plants a more steady food source and they will grow better. You might also find they use the fertiliser all up pretty quickly when you first use it. This is common and once the plants have settled down the iron levels should start to stabilise.

You can use a CO2 unit if you want but normally the fish provide enough. If you have a fully planted tank and only a couple of fish then perhaps add some.

 

[garuf]

Hi,

I'm thinking about restarting on my tank as I think I messed up with planting but maybe someone can tell me otherwise.

I currently have a 108l tank with a 1" layer of TetraPlant Complete substrate, with about another 1" of Roman white gravel on top. I've decided I don't really like the white Roman gravel as it's just not very natural looking, I used it in my 60l Oranda tank but it's just not right in the tropical tank, hence thinking of restarting the planting.

I've been looking at ADA substrates, but I'm unsure of how to actually do it I've seen a tank on here with a log on what was done with slate to make caves and it looks brilliant, so I was thinking of trying the same sort of thing with my tank.

My current setup is -

108l 36" Clear Seal tank, on a Fluval Roma 200 cabinet
Fluval 205 Canister filter
2 x APS 50 pumps running 5 air stones, so I can have 2 on, 3 on, all 5 on, or all 5 off, all controlled with X10 PC controllers.
1 x 30W 36" T8 Natural tropical sunlight tube
1 x Hydor Blue LED spot, pointing into the hood for night blue effect. I will be replacing this with 2 x 12" adjustable LED strips soon.
Tetra C02 injector, just to try to perk the plants up, never really use it but it's there if I want to. Want to upgrade this but the tank needs work first.
200W internal heater set to 26c, keeps the water at a constant 25.5c

3 x Platy (1M 2F)
3 x Guppy (1M 2F)
12 x Neon Tetra
5 x Diamond Tetra
2 x Pleco

At the moment there are 6 plants in the tank which I've seperated into the individual cuttings and bulbs to plant around the tank. I will uplad pics to my Flickr account later and post a link if anyone wants to see what I have at the moment.

As I said, I'm not sure I've done it right as this is my first planted aquarium and I want to do it right first time really. I'm thinking of buying a 36" tank plant collection off a website I found which consists of 95 plants. If you need to know what plants are included to give advice I can post the list up. I'm thinking of upgrading the lighting but I'm not sure as I only have 1 30W T8 inverter at the moment, any advice on the lighting would also be great. I've heard good things about the Interpret Triplus tubes so was thinking of 1 or 2 of those.

I currently use all Tetra liquid ferts to put in the water, so any advice on ferts etc is also much appreciated.

Sorry about the huge post but wasn't sure what info you needed to help, if you need anything else I'll post it up.

Cheers
Adam

Ada's range of substrate is very good but their are alternatives, akadama for example is equally good.
When you describe the tank with a log and slate you wouldn't be describing my 10 gallon would you?
Regarding plants its far better to have a good idea of the scape you want to achieve then buy the plants accordingly.
I'll reread this thread again soon and post up a better reply, kinda busy atm.

 

[garuf]

My current setup is -

108l 36" Clear Seal tank, on a Fluval Roma 200 cabinet
Fluval 205 Canister filter
2 x APS 50 pumps running 5 air stones, so I can have 2 on, 3 on, all 5 on, or all 5 off, all controlled with X10 PC controllers.
1 x 30W 36" T8 Natural tropical sunlight tube
1 x Hydor Blue LED spot, pointing into the hood for night blue effect. I will be replacing this with 2 x 12" adjustable LED strips soon.
Tetra C02 injector, just to try to perk the plants up, never really use it but it's there if I want to. Want to upgrade this but the tank needs work first.
200W internal heater set to 26c, keeps the water at a constant 25.5c


Okay so lets dissect you set up,
108l = 29us gallons, so as a rough guide you'll need 30watts of light to grow the very lowest light plants, to grow anything else you'll need more light, 120watts should be your very maximum of t8 90W if t5, not the 108w you'd get recommended by the CAU.

Ditch the airstones, they're useless, sell them and buy a co2 system using A fire extinguisher, Co2 is not necessary till you step over the 1wpg range but soon becomes vital if you go higher light, even at low light levels additional co2 is better and will help you to grow stronger healthier plants.

lighting, this is something you have to really know about so read up rex griggs guide. I would use 2 or 3 HOT5's on this tank, but then I have a thing for high light.
As long as you go for t5's and have a rough understanding of co2 you'll be fine.

ADA aquasoil is great but it has draw backs, these include leaching ammonia for something ungodly like a month when you plant it, also if you have really hard water you might find that you end up with yellow water.
I'd use it, that or tropica's substrate system covered with akadama.

Your filter to me is under powered and I would swap it for larger model, that or supliment it with a second filter, I'd also add a hydor external heater.
Water circulation is vital to a healthy planted tank, much like it is for a reef.

Set your goals, research everything, and once you know your goals learn how to achieve them and learn it off by heart.

 

[boardy]

Okay so lets dissect you set up,
108l = 29us gallons, so as a rough guide you'll need 30watts of light to grow the very lowest light plants, to grow anything else you'll need more light, 120watts should be your very maximum of t8 90W if t5, not the 108w you'd get recommended by the CAU.

Ditch the airstones, they're useless, sell them and buy a co2 system using A fire extinguisher, Co2 is not necessary till you step over the 1wpg range but soon becomes vital if you go higher light, even at low light levels additional co2 is better and will help you to grow stronger healthier plants.

lighting, this is something you have to really know about so read up rex griggs guide. I would use 2 or 3 HOT5's on this tank, but then I have a thing for high light.
As long as you go for t5's and have a rough understanding of co2 you'll be fine.

ADA aquasoil is great but it has draw backs, these include leaching ammonia for something ungodly like a month when you plant it, also if you have really hard water you might find that you end up with yellow water.
I'd use it, that or tropica's substrate system covered with akadama.

Your filter to me is under powered and I would swap it for larger model, that or supliment it with a second filter, I'd also add a hydor external heater.
Water circulation is vital to a healthy planted tank, much like it is for a reef.

Set your goals, research everything, and once you know your goals learn how to achieve them and learn it off by heart.

Thanks for the advice. I admit I had no real idea on putting together a planted tank, I've only ever kept Oranda's but I wanted my tropical tank to be right first time. Seems I may have messed up before I even began.

I followed a few different guides on planting and what to do. I guess these guides were very slightly incorrect. I also chose the filter going by the tank sizes, the Fluval 105 being for max of 100l aquariums and the 205 being for up to 200l aquariums.

1) Shall I ditch the Roman gravel all together, and use something else. If yes, what to use instead?
2) Is my filter really too small for my tank?
3) Will 2 x 30w T8 Interpret Triplus tubes be good for plants, I've heard great things about them?
4) Where could I find external heaters?
5) What other equipment would people recommend I get in order or need, rather than just nice to have?

I'm prepared to restart this tank, but the fish are currently in the tank, so if I'm going to be restarting the tank, I have to make it soon before the fish get bigger and harder to take out of the tank for a day, or under preferably as I only have bags to keep the fish in as well as my 60l cold tank, which I don't want to use.

I may have some pretty silly questions but the more I learn here by people telling me the right way to do things, the better chance I have of being able to help people myself and contribute to the community.

Cheers
Adam

 

[garuf]

1) Shall I ditch the Roman gravel all together, and use something else. If yes, what to use instead?
I would, depends on what you want to achieve, I'd use something with smaller grains, of about 3mm.
If you want to get it right the first time a good substrate is always helpful, go for tropica with akadama or gravel or ADA aquasoil if you can justify the extra work.

2) Is my filter really too small for my tank? yes, I use an eheim 2224 on a 10 gallon, the more filter media and water turnover the better, you want to be turning over your tank voume 5-10 times an hour, so get a filter that if you half the manufacturers rated turn over then your going to get a more accurate indication of flow.
That may not be so clear so, if your tank is 50l you want a filter that will turn over 500lph say then look for a filter rated at turning over 1000lph.

3) Will 2 x 30w T8 Interpret Triplus tubes be good for plants, I've heard great things about them?
yeah that would be fine, james c and supercoley both have reveiws of bulbs that are far nicer though.
if you want to stick to your exsisting ballasts then get a triplus and a daylight plus t6 from aqua essentials.

4) Where could I find external heaters? hydor are the only ones that make them, look up "hydor eth extrenal heater" they're about £30, but well worth the expense.

5) What other equipment would people recommend I get in order or need, rather than just nice to have?
Co2 will prove vital, there are kits available for around £40 + £20 for a Fire extinguisher to run them off.
themelous is good in this area.

 

[boardy]

Thanks so much for the help garuf, I really appreciate it.

I'll get rid of the gravel and see if I can find the products you've recommended, they are hard to find on Google searches which is slowing me down a little. Would a Fluval 405 filter be enough do you think? Fluval states the filter is 1300 LPH for aquariums up to 400 litres, as I said I have a 205 at the moment which is 680 LPH for aquariums up to 200 litres. I did have a look at the Fluval FX5 canister filter, but it's a pretty big price jump from the 405 to the FX5, which is 2300 L/H (607 U.S. Gal./H), 3500 L/H without load for aquariums up to 1500 L. I'm a little lost as to what to do as the FX5 seems a little overkill for my 108l. I like the Fluval canister filters due to the ease of cleaning and fact that you don't have to empty the canister or re-prime after cleaning it. If there are others I should look into please do let me know.

I shall do a little more research into the lighting of the aquarium. I'm still a little lost just due to the sheer amount of different bulbs on the market, I've been recommended different things by different shops but you have recommended what one of them did so I may look into that a little closer.

It's gutting that you mention those Hydor ETH external heaters as I nearly bought one of those instead of the internal one I have now, I just didn't know what I was looking at. Wish I'd picked one up now but we all learn by making mistakes don't we

I will be getting a full D&D Co2 kit when I can afford one. I tried making one but that didn't work out at all, I'm now using the TetraPlant CO2-Depot which I know is pretty crap but until I buy the D&D kit, it will have to do. As you can probably guess I don't really have the money to keep replacing parts, just filter pads, media, food, etc.

I am looking to get a Roma 200 tank probably around this time next year, so some of this stuff will be moving across, and I'll be upgrading some of it at the same time, or is it better to buy the equipment as if I already had that tank now so I only have to buy the tank when the time comes? I will be keeping the 205 filter as a backup and maybe use it on my 68l cold water aquarium, if it stays as that but I may be converting that into a fry tank for my guppies and platys but that is just a thought at present.

You say get rid of the air stones as they do nothing. Could you give me some sort of alternative to these as I use them to move the water a little for the fish, and to get air into the water a little better, would some sort of power-head be better for this?

By the way, the list of plants I'm looking into in a 101 plant collection is -

10 X MICRO SAGITTARIA
3 X DWARF SWORDS
2 X SAGITTARIA NATANS
BUNCH (7) BABY TEARS BACOPA
5 X CRYPTOCORYNE WENDTII
1 X NARROW SWORD
BUNCH (10) MYACCA FLUVIATILIS
BUNCH (5) CREEPING JENNY
BUNCH (5) HYGRO. POLYSPERMA
BUNCH (5) STRAIGHT VALLISNERIA
BUNCH (5) ELODEA DENSA
BUNCH (5) LUDWIGIA NATANS
BUNCH (5) GREEN CABOMBA
BUNCH (5) BRONZE BACOPA
BUNCH (5) TWISTED VALLISNERIA
2 X SAGITTARIA NATANS
3 X WATER WISTERIA
2 X BULB SPECIES
BUNCH (5) RED SPECIES
5 X SALVINIA FLOATING
2 X AMAZON SWORDS
BUNCH (4) THAILAND STRICTA

I'm sorry for all the questions as I know they are n00b questions, but all the sites I'm looking at seem extremely vague on this subject, and don't provide much info at all.

Thanks again
Adam

 

[SuperColey1]

Boardy

Where in Lincoln do you live? If you have some spare time then I can help you out and show you the setup I use.

On your tank I would use a Tetratec EX700. Cheap from zooplus.co.uk

Andy

 

[boardy]

Andy,

I'm actually pretty much in the center, living in May Crescent atm, just off Yarborough Road. I'm actually a Uni student so have loads of spare time lol.

Any help would be great

Cheers
Adam

 

[Themuleous]

That filter is cheaper from here

http/www.fishbitz.co.uk/tetratec-ex700-2134-p.asp

Sam

 

[boardy]

As it would happen, I've been looking at the EX series as an alternative to the Fluval FX5. Same sort of flow rate, but nearly £100 cheaper for the EX1200.

Would the EX1200 be too powerful for a year in a 108l tank before I get my 200l - 300l tank? I paid the same amount for the Fluval 205 so I'm prepared to pay for the EX1200 if it's better than the 205 and will run the tank very well. I just cannot really justify the price tag on the FX5 at the moment.

Thanks for the link cheapest place for these filters it would seem.

On the substrate side of things, I think I'm going to empty the tank after going down to B&Q or Argos and picking up a bag of play sand, or silver sand. Leaving the Aqua Complete substrate I will put a layer of sand on top of that after removing the crap gravel I have at present. Will this be ok? I've seen a fair few tanks setup like this that look really good I think.

Cheers for all the help and any more you can give.
Adam

 

[SuperColey1]

This is OK. I would get silver sand if possible as it is stored indoors whereas playsand is outside and open to the elements (before being bagged of course). Therefore there are less contaminants in the dry / silver sand.

The 1200 should be OK for larger tanks up to 300ish. It would be at the low end for the 300Ltr if all the media was in but I just use half of the media anyway.

After I finish doing up my house I'll invite you round to have a look at my setup. I'm only a short drive from Yarborough Hill or a 20 minute walk.

Andy

 

[boardy]

Well I took advice and bought an EX1200 today and wow does it create one hell of a flow in the tank!! I've pointed the spray bar at the side of the tank to try to reduce the flow, as well as closing the valves on the inlet and outlet about 40% ish.

I've replaced the substrate with some new TetraPlant Complete as it's the only one my lfs were selling at the time, and also down to B&Q to pick up some kiln dried sand which looks 100 times better than the gravel did. I'll upload some pics of the new layout as soon as I can so I can get some comments on it. I still have to get the external heater, plants, and Co2 system but everything seems to be fine at the moment.

On another note, I found one of the female guppies has given birth. I'm not 100% sure it is the guppy as I'm not sure what the fry look like as I wasn't actually expecting them to give birth this soon. Was just luck that I spotted them before the tank was 100% empty. I know people say they are tiny when born but my god they really are tiny!!

Adam