Possible Ich And Bottom Sitting

[littlest]

As detailed here I accidently left my filter and heater off overnight. Temp dropped from 25C to 21C. Also had ammonia just under 0.25 on the first day (dropped back to zero in 12 hours) and 0.25 of nitrite of second day. Both ammonia and nitrite are now back to zero

Wilder warned me to watch out for disease and now one of my sprakling gouramis is lethargic and bottom sitting. Barely seeing this one at all. The other three are active and eating but I there is a white spot on on of their fins and possibly a couple in its tail. So I am scared this may be ich.

Can get a pic sorry, just too small to come out.

Tank details:

8G with 4 sparkling gouramis and 3 amano shrimp (all added on Monday)
Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 15

So I am thinking of treating for ich (does this sound a good idea).

I normally use Waterlife products but had concerns about the compatibility of Protozin and my shrimp. Did a google and found a forum where someone had written to Waterlife and they replied that Protozin does contain copper and advised him to use Octozin instead for whitespot. I have some Octozin, should I treat with this?
link to forum (reply from waterlife at the bottom)

 

[drewry]

As detailed here I accidently left my filter and heater off overnight. Temp dropped from 25C to 21C. Also had ammonia just under 0.25 on the first day (dropped back to zero in 12 hours) and 0.25 of nitrite of second day. Both ammonia and nitrite are now back to zero

Wilder warned me to watch out for disease and now one of my sprakling gouramis is lethargic and bottom sitting. Barely seeing this one at all. The other three are active and eating but I there is a white spot on on of their fins and possibly a couple in its tail. So I am scared this may be ich.

Can get a pic sorry, just too small to come out.

Tank details:

8G with 4 sparkling gouramis and 3 amano shrimp (all added on Monday)
Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 15

So I am thinking of treating for ich (does this sound a good idea).

I normally use Waterlife products but had concerns about the compatibility of Protozin and my shrimp. Did a google and found a forum where someone had written to Waterlife and they replied that Protozin does contain copper and advised him to use Octozin instead for whitespot. I have some Octozin, should I treat with this?
link to forum (reply from waterlife at the bottom)

hi i havent a clue with treatments i had some protozin from waterlife and on the back of the box theres a number you can ring they put you through to there chemist so any questions they,ll answer

 

[Angel_Queen]

I think before you start treating for something it is best to get confirmation that it is in fact the disease you think it is. Try this linkhere to go through the symptons of the various different ailments that can affect fish before you starting treating something.

 

[littlest]

Thanks Angel Queen, I've read a lot about common aquarium diseases in the past couple of years and it is ich in particular I am worried about. I've seen it before in the lfs, but not had it in any of my tanks before.

The problem is, because of the small size of the sparklers and the nature of their scales (the colour and the iridescence) it is very hard to tell if they have any on their bodies. There is a definite white spot on one of the fish's pectoral fin which is about the size of a grain of salt. There may be a couple of smaller ones also on the same petoral fin and possibly some small ones in its tail, but if there is any there they are very small.

I've not noticed any on the other fish (including the bottom-sitting one), but like I said, if it is on their bodies I am not sure I would be able to see it.

According to my boyfriend there always has been one fish that didn't "hang out" with the others and tended to stay near the back, less active. This was before the temp drop. Maybe one of them is just weaker than the others or got too stressed in the trip home?

I don't want to medicate unnecessarily, but at the same time, if it is ich, I want to nip it in the bud so to speak.

Thanks drewry for the idea about phoning them. Hope they are open at the weekend, going to try tomorrow.

 

[Angel_Queen]

I'm a newbie, so don't have much experience, but been looking online regarding whether it is ich or not.

but I there is a white spot on on of their fins and possibly a couple in its tail. So I am scared this may be ich.

Identifying Ich
White spot cysts, each containing an active trophont, appear as small white nodules on the skin, gills and fins, giving the fish the appearance of having been dusted with salt... the early stages of the disease, fish are likely to flash and rub against objects because of the irritation. At a later, advanced stage they will become lethargic and spend most of their time sitting on the bottom.

The lethargy sounds like yours, but as you said, there only seems to be a few spots.

I'm hoping someone more experienced comes in to help...

 

[littlest]

The bottom-sitting fish has deteriorated. He is just lying there, breathing heavily, not moving other than his gills and eyes. Every couple of minutes he does a mad dart up to the top to breathe from the air, then sinks back to wherever he lands. I can't get a good look at his body and fins because he is staying in the back-half of the tank (which involves a lot of uncomfortable leaning for me) and, to be honest, I have bad eyesight for things so small.
I'm not holding out much hope for this one at the moment. I still don't know why he is so ill. Whether he was weak when I got him, had an infection when I got him, got stressed on the journey, been picked on by the others, stressed by the temp drop/ammonia/nitrite, or has ich, or some other infection. I really don't know which.

Tank stats remain the same, zero ammonia, zero nitrite.

Other three fish are very active and eating. One still has the white spot on his pectoral fin. Spent a long time looking, not sure if there are others or not.

Any experienced people out there who could give me some advice? Should I treat for ich? do something else?
I'm doing a large water change tomorrow morning regardless, but need more guidance please.

Got a pic of the one with the white spot on his pectoral fin. Best I could get.

(it's on your left)

 

[littlest]

The fish are "yawning" a lot too. Including the active ones.

could this be a symptom of ich or does this indicate something else?

Will increase aeration in the interim

 

[littlest]

The bottom-sitting fish has died.

The other three remain the same. I'm still not totally sure I should treat for ich but I don't know what else to do so I am going to treat with Octozin.

Just to make sure I am doing it right:

I do a 50% waterchange, vacuuming the gravel
Replace water, turn the temp up to 29C (do I do this gradually?)
When temp reaches 29C I add Octozin

Octozin says to treat on days 1,2 and 3, is this enough to catch all the ich? Would it be wise to do a second course a couple of days later (after a couple of large waterchanges) to ensure I get it all, or would that be unnecessarily over-medicating?

 

[Angel_Queen]

As far as I am aware you should raise the temp gradually so to not shock them. Raise by 1 degree each time I think. Hope this helps.

 

[WILDER]

If some fish have whitespots the size of a grain of salt I would get treating for whitespot.
Parasites can cause bacterial infections.
The one sitting on the floor and rushing up for air is not good sorry.
I would raise temp to 30.
Increase aeration as the med and high temp will reduce 02 in the water.
Remove black carbon if you use it.
Sorry just read this fish died R.I.P.
http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

 

[littlest]

Thanks Wilder.
Am pretty sure it is ich now. Seeen another definite spot like a grain of salt.

I increased the temp to 30C this morning (did 50 per cent water change and gravel vac first) and added one dose of Octozin (found out for sure Protozin can't be used with shrimp but Octozin can).
Added an airstone too.
Don't use carbon.

Remaining fish are still normal and active in behaviour and so far only one has noticeable spots so I'm hoping I've caught it early enough for these three at least.

 

[littlest]

Oh dear.

All fish seemed normal in behaviour this morning but just got back to work and things aren't looking so good.

One fish has splits in its fins (will try and get pics), although it doesn't seem that this fish is being picked on, in fact this fish is nipping at the one with the white spots.

The third fish is behaving strangely. It's hiding most of the time (and I can't see it) then every now and again it rushes out and swims quickly to the top, breathes, then swims back down and disappears again. The behaviour is very similar to the behaviour of the one that died.

I added the last of three doses of Octazin this morning.

Ammonia and nitrite are both zero, nitrate around 15.

It may be worth noting that this fish is much paler in the body than the others. Not sure if this was always the case or not.

 

[WILDER]

Finrot is common on top of whitespot, the splits heal on there own in good water quality.
Sounds like the nasty parasites have damaged the gills on the fish if its darting up for air, sadly they don't rarely make it once gills are affected bad.
Being pale is a sign of stress the parasites.
Good luck as they have it bad.

 

[littlest]

The one with the split fins is "flaring" constantly at the one with the whitespots and chasing him/her. The one being chased isn't the weak one. Would there be any reason for this sudden aggression or is just due to stress? Anything I can do to minimise it? The tank is heavily planted with lots of cover and hidey places.

 

[WILDER]

Sadly a fish can attack a fish when there ill.
Can you seperate them.