Please Help! Ich & Possible Aggresive Goby Problems...

[suzieq]

Hi everyone! I am new to the forum, I came across it searching for goby behavior. I am new to this hobby and have ALOT of questions!!!!

I have a 44 gallon saltwater tank which is about 2 months old. My current tankmates are a pink spotted goby, firefish goby, 2 percula clown fish, 10 small crabs (fish store recommend this to help with the ich), tiger smail, cleaner shrimpfish (which is not doing very well), sand shifter star fish and chocolate chip starfish.

My first question is, what is the best way to get rid of ich? I've read and read and read some more on the internet. Mostly I've read to get ich solution that contains copper but then it says its not healthy for my inverts and I also have a mushroom and polyps. My firefish (the first fish that was put into the tank) had ich but I lowered the salinity, and after a week he was fine, no more itching, white spots all gone. My newest fish, the chocolate tang just died yesterday from ich He only survived about 5 days, but he had ich really bad, white spots, itching, color disapeared!! I bought some ich prevention treatment safe for mushrooms and polyps a week ago but apparently it didn't help.

My second question is, are pink spotted goby fish supposed to be territorial/aggresive fish?? Do they not get along well with other fish? He'll nip at any fish that comes near his home (a hole in a rock, which he stole from my firefish goby). When we got the chocolate tang, the tang seemed to fall in love with the pink spotted goby and would follow him everywhere including the rock. He goby would sort of nip at the tang but was a bit of a faker... didn't really nip or bite, just opened his mouth and tried to push the tang away. The tang didn't seem to mind and eventually the goby would just share his rock with the tang.

But I just purchased a cleaner shrimp today (read on the internet, that these might help with the ich). The fish store owner told me to make sure I aclimate him slowly and lower him onto a rock with my hand VERY SLOWLY, which I did. At first he seemed great and a bit excited, jumped around and started cleaning. THEN, my pink spotted goby spotted him and started nipping at him. This seemed to traumatize him and he just kinda of froze and hasn't moved since. My pink spotted goby wouldn't leave him alone so I reached into the tank and gently moved the cleaner shrimp to the other side of the tank where my firefish's rock home is. The cleaner shrimp is alive but not moving around, is this normal??? Also it normal for my pink spotted goby to nip at the shrimp Do I just have a mean fish???

Third question, what can I get to help clean the algae and sand?

PLEASE HELP!!!!! I am scared to get any more fish or do anything in case the pink spotted goby tries to attack it as well.

Also here are some of my stats, in case this helps ......
Nitrate lvl is at 40
Nitrite lvl is at 0
Alkalinity is at 120
PH is at 8.4

P.S. Sorry this was sooo long!!

 

[Lynden]

Try giving the afflicted fish freshwater baths, these can save lives. Do this by placing the fish in a bucket of (warm) distilled or reverse osmosis water, then leaving for five minutes before putting the fish back in the tank.

The small crabs will do nothing to prevent ich. They may help to rid the tank of algae and will eat detritus.

Your pink goby may be a bad apple, I would suggest rehoming him if he continues to act aggressively.

I have noticed some incompatabilities regarding your tank.
1. A 44 gallon tank is not adequate as a permanent home for any tang. Avoid these in the future.
2. Chocolate chip stars are voracious omnivores, consuming cnidarians (your mushroom anemones and zoanthid polyps), other echinoderms (your sand sifter star), molluscs (your tiger snail) and even the odd fish or crustacean. Omnivorous starfish tend to be hyper efficient food consumers and will quickly rid a tank of food. As such it will require extra feeding when it has polished off your corals and sand sifter.
3. Your tiger snail, if by that you mean tiger cowrie, is also an omnivore that will readily consume cnidarians (the one I used to have took chunks out of an anemone while still at the pet store).

You should try to solve these problems before adding more animals to the tank. Everything else seems fine.

-Lynden

 

[AK77]

Shrimp will help somewhat by cleaning the fish. I can't see how the crabs will help at all. The only possible way they could contribute to the removal of the parasite would be if they found one of the cysts that had detatched and fallen down to the substrate. Apart from that they'd be about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.

By far the best thing to do is quarantine the fish in a hospital tank for about a month, leaving no fish in your main aquarium at all. This has two effects. Firstly it means you can then use a whitespot medication that is copper based in the hospital tank to treat the whitespot, without affecting invertebrates, corals and filtration bacteria, etc. Secondly, it means that the parasite will be unable to find a fish host and die, thereby breaking the cycle of reinfection. Raising the tank temperature to about 80f will speed up the cycle. Once your fish in the hospital tank are clear from the parasite and the main tank has been left void of fish to break the cycle of the parasite, you can reintroduce them.

From then on, ANY new fish you purchase should be quarantined for at least 2 weeks in the hospital tank. When choosing a fish in your LFS, its recommended to pick one that is vibrant in colour and is energetic. Stay away from ones that are listless and lying around if possible. When you get the fish home and in the quarantine tank, observe it daily for signs of abnormalities and weird behaviour. Watch its gill movement, its scales for signs of whitespot or other parasites. Inspect its fins for any signs of rot and also its waste too. I've been in my LFS and seen people buying fish that share a tank with fish that have a long string of white poop hang from its underside. This is a good (bad) sign of an internal parasite or infection. Its often a good idea to medicate the water to protect against parasites and bacterial infections that may not be immediately apparent. You don't want a fully stocked tank of fish worth hundreds of dollars being lost for the sake of not screening newcomers.

You of course don't have to use copper based medications. Freshwater baths as mentioned previously are of some benefit, but if the ich is already widespread in the aquarium, the fish will most likely be reinfected a few hours later when placed back in the tank. Hyposalinity is another method for treating whitespot, but you have to ensure that while lowering the SG value, that PH remains within safe parameters. Its not something I would recommend attempting without fully researching or better yet, with the initial assistance of an experienced marine fishkeeper who's performed it before.

Eitherway, I'd recommend putting all the fish in quarantine to decontaminate your display tank and make treating the parasite more effective.

AK

 

[SkiFletch]

I'll agree that quarantine is a great option here. Another possibility is a UV sterilizer coupled with quarantine. UV sterilizers kill waterborne parasites and bacteria and will help control ich allready in the tank. I've yet to encounter ich in my tank, and I've been running a sterilizer sine day 1. Co-incidence? Perhaps, perhaps not.

In the future, when purchasing fish, only purchase those known to have been at your LFS for at least a couple weeks. If necessary, ask them to put a new one on hold for you to observe its health and behavior. The fish should eat well, have no difficulties swimming, be colored well, and be responsive to stimuli (finger on the glass, approaching the tank, etc). If the fish looks good after two weeks, chances are it'll be healthy in your aquarium

Lastly I'd like to ask, what's the tank temerature like? High? Low? Stable? Variable?

 

[suzieq]

Thank you all for replying!!!! This is all so confusing sometimes, I get so many different suggestions from the fish store, the internet and friends. Its hard to figure out which is best for me.

Ski, what exactly is a UV sterlizer? I did a search for UV sterlizers and got a bunch of different pictures of them. Which would you recommend? What is a good price range for these?? My tank temp is stable at 79-80 degrees. It doesn't seem to change much, no matter how hot it is outside or no matter how much I turn on the AC in the house.

AK77, I am considering purchasing a quarantine tank. What size tank would you recommend for a quarantine tank? Also do I need to go through the whole process of cycling the quarantine tank before I put my fish in there??

Lynden, 1. yes I've noticed alot of people saying that tangs need a big size tank on the internet. The fish store recommended him to me saying that he was a smaller tang and would be okay in my tank Did not know my tank was too small, however poor thing did not make it from ich.
2. i bought the chocolate chip star fish BEFORE re-searching (MISTAKE I WON'T MAKE AGAIN). I read ALOT of horror stories about them after putting him in my tank. Fortunately, he seems to be behaving or has enough to eat that he doesn't bother anyone else in the tank.
3. My tiger snail is a large sized snail who just stays under the sand, with a little tube like thing sticking up. The fish store told me he would not bother my mushrooms and polyps and would help with cleaning my sand, is this the same thing as tiger cowlie you mentioned?

I am trying to convince my boyfriend to relocate the pink goby (we share the tank and this is his favorite fish). However if I do decide to relocate him, how do I catch him without disturbing all my rocks?? He's really quick and he has this hole in the rock he darts into when he gets startled.

Also I had some new questions. I have this really big bubbly slimy green algae growing on my top rock. It was REALLY REALLY bad but the tang I had ate it all. Now that the tang is gone, the bubbly slimy algae is starting to grow again. The crabs won't clean this, so if I can't get tangs, what should I get to clean this??

I would really like to get some kind of cleaner shrimp eventually. Which are the hardiest and would be able to co-exist with my pink spotted goby??

Thanks again!!

 

[SkiFletch]

A UV sterilizer is pretty much what it's name indicates, it passes water through a tube that it shines UV light through. Anything inside the water that goes through it dies, including waterborne bacteria and parasites. In general the sterilizer requires a properly sized pump to work. They have target flowrates to maximize the reaction time with the UV light. Usually bacteria get it on the higher end and parasites on the lower end of flowrate. Most sterilizers used for marine are in the 9-20watt range so that's what you should be looking for. I know if you were in the States, I'd tell you to get a Coralife Turbotwist 9watt for around $90. Dunno how much they cost in the UK though.

As for the algae problem, a few more questions for you to answer What lighting does the tank have? How much LR? How many powerheads and what is their total flowrate? Any external canister filters used? If so what media is in them and what if any is their cleaning regimen? How often do you waterchange and do you vaccum the substrate when you waterchange? Do you like and/or desire purple coraline algae in your tank?

Without seeing it, the algae sounds like either cyanobacteria or maybe even dinoflagellates . Hair algae rarely holds on to O2 bubbles. Anyway you can get a pic or look at ones over the internet that I just mentioned to get a proper ID? Remember, there are green versions of cyanobacteria even though the brown/rust is most common. Unfortunately you're kindn of limited in algae cleaners in a tank that size, but we'll see about your answers to my questions before i go reccomending cleaners.

 

[bambam]

sorry for getting somewhat off the topic but purple coraline algae how do you grow it in your tank and is it the benficial?

 

[Lynden]

The chocolate tang would have been OK for several months, and possibly for several years. I would however not recommend it for a few different reasons; the final decision is yours to make.

UV sterilizers can help but my sterilizer did nothing to prevent the loss of nearly all my fish several months ago. Therefore I doubt their influence.

Your tiger snail sounds a little like a cone shell. If so, it may or may not be harmful to you and your fish; some cone shells are highly venomous. If it has not attacked anything yet I would consider it a non-venomous species. Either way it should be fed every so often. What to feed it I don't know; probably shrimp pieces.

You could stock a small tang in your tank for algae control, but rehome the animal if it seems "off" for days on end.

Coralline algae grows well in tanks with moderate lighting, plenty of calcium, and no predators. Whether or not it is actually beneficial is a matter of debate. Corals seem to prefer a coating of it to attach to, but rarely it can plug the holes of live rock causing bacteria to suffocate and eventually collapse, causing a major ammonia spike. Whatever side you choose to believe, however, the inescapable conclusion is that it sure is pretty.

-Lynden

 

[SkiFletch]

Whatever side you choose to believe, however, the inescapable conclusion is that it sure is pretty.

Lol, yeah it is. In addition to lighting and calcium, in my experience it also helps to have a high alkalinity (to balance the calcium), and very low phosphates (skimmers, refugiums, and GFO phosphate removers help) as phosphates inhibit calcification