Platty Looking Bad

[foxysway]

I posted this on another forum hoping for a quick response and got none as of yet so I am copying the same thing here. Please someone tell me some good news.

Thanks!

I am almost sure it is because the tank isn't through cycling but can someone confirm what causes that lethargic disposition and the clamped fins and tail?? When I released the platty into the water, it first was very active and now it remains behind the bubble curtain. The fish store said the water was perfect and that I should add another platty. I also added some "Cycle" and some Amquel +. The sales person at the store said it will lower the nitrates/nitrites and ammonia so the fish can survive the 'bloom' of bacteria. The temp is 78 - 80 (is that too high?) I read that adding salt might benefit the platties. But this is my son's first tank and I know little if nothing from when my parents raised Discus and Angels but I was a teen with no interest. He is upset that the Pictis (sp) Cat died and so did all four of our Cardinal Tetras.
His favorite Platty died this afternoon while I cleaned the tank (excess food at the bottom and the cloudiness of the water). I rinsed off the plants and gravel in spring water not tap AND I did not do a thing with the filter, just removed it. I added fresh spring water to fill the tank and some AquaSafe before returning the platty to it (after acclimating it to the new tank in a baggy). I know why she is clamped and staying at the bottom but what I do not know is there a chance she can recover and what can I do to optimize that chance?? Thanks for reading my rambling....I am a bit frazzled at this time.

 

[wdrury]

Hi,
Clamped fins usualy is a sign of some sort of stress,usualy water conditions.

How long has the tank been set up?...it can take upto 8 weeks to complete cycle...get an ammonia test kit if you dont have one(this is one of the most important tests)the less ammonia the better.Make sure there is plenty of aeration and do a partial water change weekly approx 1/3.Dont over feed,only what they can eat in 3 minutes.
(approx what will fit on your pinky finger nail)
Your temperature should be fine.Also when was the filter last cleaned?Try replacing the filter media but only ever relace half at a time so some of the good bacteria is left in the filter.

As long as you fllow these simple steps you should be fine..platies are a very hardy species.
Good luck and hope this is of some help
Leave another post and let us know how it goes

 

[foxysway]

I just found out that the new one is a male (I got him yesterday) and the 'survivor' is a female and she is no longer clamped up and swimming around the tank like nothing is wrong. The male is chasing her a bit I am not sure if they are twitterpating (from the moving "Bambi") or if he is just a meanie. I am so happy to see her move freely about the tank. I will tell you what I did that I think helped. First I got rid of the ammonia filled tank. BTW it is a 4.5 Gallon Discovery aquarium with a semi under-gravel filtration system that trickles from the top back into the tank, it has a covered light. I added a bubble curtain along the entire back and the heater is set around 80 - 82. I think she was too cold when I first refilled the tank and added her and the new guy in it. Her fins appear full now and she is not staying at the bottom or the top, just swimming around. Today I removed 10% of the water and I added almost a Tablespoon of freshwater aquarium salt. It says it helps stress and returns electrolytes into the tank as well as prevents disease and induces recovery. So far so good.

I had a really hard time watching the others die. I swear they were looking at me and saying, "Help me...do something". I don't care how miniscule the life is, I can't sit buy and watch even a plant die without feeling remorse. However, I feel strongly that this female might just pull through. She has been through alot from the overstocked tank and a new cycle (4 cardinal tetras, 1 pictis cat and another sunburst platty), to a complete tank change with probably too much cold water (another thing someone advised me to do but came to find out he has only raised goldfish his entire life but no tropicals) and then she had to endure the new guy chasing her around. I think if she doesn't survive, she sure gave Death a run for its money.
As for the other questions....I started the tank Monday and did not realize I should have let it sit a few months with some ammonia added or something to get the cycle going. So that has been 3 days now with one complete water change and one 10% water change. I do not have a test kit but I have been taking the water to the LFS and they said no nitrates or nitrites but the ammonia was 1.0. After that I did the 10% change. I heard Amquel + is bad and gives false readings and I could not use the biospira because we initially treated the water with AquaSafe and it is incompatible. Did I answer all the questions???

Thanks for letting me ramble. I type 79 wpm and so I say alot in a short time but when you read it, it doesn't seem short.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I think you should read up on this link, it tells you on how to treat and avoid new tank syndrone(i.e cycling tanks) which applys to your situation ;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099

4.5gallon tank is very small tank, theres hardly anything that will happily live in a tank of that size and unfortuantly platys are too big and active for your tank- they really need at least 10gals. Salt is really a med for treating various fish deseases rather than a general stress aid as it can wear down the kidneys and liver in freshwater tropical fish over time.
After you have read the info in the link, i shall give you some pointers on running a healthy tropical tank;
a. Never take out more than 60% of water in a tank in a single day, it will starve your beneficial bacteria of ammonia and may cause your tank to mini-cycle; the ph in old tanks can also drop over time, and large water changes in old tanks can cause ph fluctuations which are very stressful for fish.
b. You should test you own tank water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates at least once a week during the first 3-4months of your tanks life because while the tank is newly set up this is when it is most likely to experience water quality issues. Ammonia and nitrites should always be 0 and nitrats kept peferably under 40. Its better to test your own water quality rather than rely on the lfs(local fish store) as many lfs's will tell you water quality is "fine" when in fact it has many issues.
c. Water changes are by far the best way to remove or lower ammonia and nitrite levels, even if your tank doesn't have any water quality issues you should do at least a 20-30% water change once a week. Adding and growing live aquarium plants in your tank can lower nitrates. Avoid using any ammonia/nitrite/nitrate removal chemicals as these will cause your tank to cycle and you will be in a never-ending battle of fighting the ammonia and nitrites.
d. Never wash your filter sponge out in tap water, the chlorine in tap water kills off your beneficial bacteria that keeps your tank stable, also over-cleaning your filter sponge can also kill off your beneficial bacteria- you should only wash out your filter sponge in water from water changes, and aim to just remove the really gunky and mucky bits from the filter sponge .

 

[foxysway]

Thanks Tokis....

I have learned so much this week about what it means to be a fish keeper.

They make it seem so easy with the Discovery tanks.

I mean it comes with everything right?
I am not giving up on the whole deal, trust me.
I am however considering a larger tank.

I know the Platys get larger but these are two small ones. Maybe an inch, inch and a half if that.

LFS lady said that I shouldn't do the 10% exchange because it will remove good bacteria. I also heard that ammonia sinks to the bottom and so if I am removing the top of the tank and adding new water without the bacteria...then I basically keep the ammonia in the tank and the fish might die.

I know that the lady at the LFS said, "Don't stress about the fish dying" but in the past 3 days, we have grown very attached to those two and want to see them make it.

I bought a very nice expensive testing kit today because ONE I hate going to the FS everyday for the testing and TWO I am the kind of person who wants to see for myself.

Thanks for the help and I'll make sure to let y'all know how it goes.

Sway

 

[platyfreek]

dont rely on lfs people unless you know them personally and can make a good judgement about them. you need to do water changes! they may stress the fish a little but a lot less than letting the ammonia get so high the fish die.

 

[foxysway]

dont rely on lfs people unless you know them personally and can make a good judgement about them. you need to do water changes! they may stress the fish a little but a lot less than letting the ammonia get so high the fish die.

That's funny you say that because the lady at the fish store said, "Don't stress about the fish dying because they are going to die...just get through the cycle and put in the fish you really like". Well uh helloooo I REALLY like these two fish. Anyway...I did the 10% change. Ammonia was at 1.0 and after I did the change it still was at 1.0 Bajo and Luna are still happily swimming around but I am sure it is kinda like me walking around a garage with the car running and the door closed, right?

So I just keep praying and crossing fingers and hoping that all will work out.

Would getting some gravel from a well established tank help the bacteria colonize???

 

[CroNiC]

Just for a little fun, and to see if u can trust ur lfs what u shud do is check your water. KNow your stats and then take some of the water to the lfs and ask them to check if for u. If it doesnt match with ur stats then obviusly the lfs cant be trusted. Just a tip

 

[foxysway]

Y'all are NOT going to believe this.
My son comes running downstairs yelling, "They had babies...they had babies".
I said, "What?"

Luna and Bajo had babies.

So I went upstairs thinking it was food floating around or something and sure enough, here is this itsie bitsie tiny fish inside one of the tank ornaments. Big eyes staring out at me. I didn't see but one so if there were others either they were eaten or she had just one.

My question is this....

Can Platties have just one offspring?
With the ammonia still at 1.0, will the baby die even though I am regularly doing a 25% change?

What does that little guy eat anyway?

What can I do to assure he lives???

 

[love_fish]

Platies have more than one fry. They prolly got eaten, unless she's still fat, in which she has more babies. If you cant get a breeders net, put some floating plants in there. But a breeding net will assure that he lives.

 

[foxysway]

Yep...you're right...she did have more. I have counted 6 so far. Does it take a while for Platties to deliver?

Cuz when I first looked, there was only one.

How do I get the babies into the breeder's net???

Platies have more than one fry. They prolly got eaten, unless she's still fat, in which she has more babies. If you cant get a breeders net, put some floating plants in there. But a breeding net will assure that he lives.

 

[Zukla]

Your story is very touching, personally I hate livebearers because I find they are prone to disease and often buying new ones brings it into your tank. Platys though, I have never kept. I have kept sword tails which are very closely related, as well as guppies and mollies. All of them do better with some salt by the way.
I currently have one female guppy who was a cycling fish and lives in a malawi tank (a few tanganyikans too). She had friends but I flushed most of them because I thought they were trashy (And they were feeders), a couple were eaten and about eight moved to my brothers turtle tank and I think 4 still live there. This one was exceedingly smart, it is hilarious how she sneaks down along the background to steal food from the vicous cichlids and they usually don't notice until it's too late.

As for reproduction it's likely that your female was pregnant when you got her, livebearers often are. She doesn't even need the male and will continue to have babies for months. He may father some later but it's most unlikely he did this time.

They have about 10-30 at a time (depends on the species) and I noticed sword tails and endlers fry (guppy relatives) are the least likely to eat thier young. You have a little while with the mother usually as I understand it. She releases a hormone that removes her appetite for a time when she gives birth. I have never raised them sucessfully but that is mostly because I have no interest in them, they are much easier then most egg layers and usually take ground flake food or that powder from the fish store. Culturing infusoria and crap like that is not necessary as these fish have comparitively big fry. There are many other things you can raise etc. but daphina, sometimes called water fleas (a really tiny crustacean) are usually the best for such large fry. You can buy frozen magna from your LFS sometimes but I find these can introduce diseases. If you would like to start a daphina culture you can order them from www.aquabid.com, in the live food section. They are really simple to care for and harvest and much less disgusting then most other live food cultures. I can't abide growing white worms or grindal worms. Another benefit is when the fish miss some they will survive in the aquarium and eat bits of food until they fish find them. A lot of others will die and rot, which is really bad for fry, who are usually very delicate.

 

[foxysway]

So are you saying that Platys won't eat their young? We thought we found about 15 of the fry but after this afternoon can only see about 3. However we have an ornament that I believe they hide under as well as they find crevices in the gravel. I might have smoooshed a few when I buried the live plants in the gravel. I hope I did not. Anyway...so is it normal for the adults to eat the fry?

 

[dwarfgourami]

So are you saying that Platys won't eat their young? We thought we found about 15 of the fry but after this afternoon can only see about 3. However we have an ornament that I believe they hide under as well as they find crevices in the gravel. I might have smoooshed a few when I buried the live plants in the gravel. I hope I did not. Anyway...so is it normal for the adults to eat the fry?

It is perfectly normal for platys to eat their young. The appetite suppressing hormone may work for somefemales, but not for all (never did for mine )- and it certainly won't have done anything for the male. Males often follow pregant females around the tank, hoping for a tasty snack when they give birth. After all, with a fish that can give birth to 20-30 young every 4-6 weeks, has a lifespan of c. 4 years, and can store sperm from one mating for at least 7 pregnancies- it stands to reason that Mother Nature cannot have expected them all to survive.

On the other hand, you obviously do want at least some of your babies to survive. Gently catching them in a net, or (better) scooping them up with a CLEAN soup ladle, and putting them in a floating breeder net (in the tank) is one way of ensuring this. Another is to add lots of plants to the tank for them to hide in. They can eat dry fry food, or even crushed flakes, so no need to cultivate live foods. If you have plants they will probably also feed on tiny microorganisms that live on the plants. They need to be fed 4-6 times a day but VERY small quantities so as not to foul the water. I find dipping a toothpick in the powdered fry food gets about the right amount.

You need to work very hard on maintaining water conditions as fry are sensitive. Small frequent water changes, buy a liquid test kit so you can check your water stats and do not have to depend on an lfs.


Zukla- whatever you do, never flush a fish! There are humane ways of euthanising, flushing has got to be one of the cruellest. How would you like to drown in a torrent of burning ammonia? If you can't find clove oil, a sharp knife is still a much kinder alternative. Your attitude to fish strikes me as irresponsible anyway. Why get them if you're going to kill them because you don't like them? Using feeder fish to feed other fish makes sense, flushing them makes no sense whatsoever.

It is not true that all livebearers benefit from added salt. They like alkaline water, but there are other ways of achieving that. The only common livebearers that are sometimes from a brackish environment are mollies; platys and guppies are certainly not. As for the practice of some breeders of using salt as a general anti-infectant, this is damaging to the liver and kidneys of freshwater fish in the longterm, and if they were kept in better water conditions, they shouldn't need a general anti-infectant.