Planning My New Tank...

[ICEEGRL]

Ok... I am finally definately getting a 55g tank. The cheapest I can find is the kit from Wal-Mart. It is $169.00, and comes with 2 single light fixtures, a heater, a hob filter, and hood. All standard.
I know the light won't be enough. They didn't even have the nerve to list what the wattage was. lol
Knowing that things will have to be replaced I am thinking that it may be cheaper to find just the tank and purchase everything separately.
Which way would you all suggest? I intend to have it planted.
What all will I be needing for the tank?

I want to have lots of plants with mostly corys and some small fish. It will be mostly about the corys, so I know I will need to incorporate caves and things of that sort.
I would like it to be nice, but not cost me a fortune.
I need all help and suggestions I can get in planning this tank. I don't want to have to do any re-do for a long time. I am already working on re-doing the 4 that I have going now. I won't have the money to re-do it, so I have to get it right the first time.
Thanks for any and all help!

 

[Themuleous]

Kits always work out cheaper than buying separately, but it depends how much of the stuff you'll have to replace/upgrade. Can you really get an HOB (hang on back) filter for a 55g tank? I would want a decent external at least. What sort of tank you after, high or low light?

Sam

 

[lljdma06]

Aquaclear makes a good HOB that is rated for a 110g aquarium, but I would rather get two that are rated for a 75g. So much better to over-filter, and you'll get better water circulation with two filters, one on each side. The filter in the Walmart kit is crap and you can't use your own media. Aquaclear is much more adaptable and pretty darn affordable. I really don't buy kits and often purchase things separately. It is a little bit more, but I then don't have a bunch of equipment that I have to get rid of later on. I echo Sam's question; high or low light? 55g is big enough that you could do some nice things.

I'm just giving an idea, but you know what I haven't seen in a long time? A nice cyprinid setup. Go with water a little cooler, 72 degrees or so. Many cyprinids actually appreciate the lower temp. Opt for lower light, not being biased, but it'll help the setup. Install a powerhead in one end so you get a really nice definite current. Plant crypts, vallis, ferns, Hygro, mosses, etc. Really feature branchy wood and rounded rocks in your hardscape, like a stream bed. Go for really crisp, clear water. Stock with danios, small botias, and peaceful barbs. That would be a super cool tank and pretty low-maintenance. You might be able to add hillstream loaches to this setup too. I can just see moss and java fern waving in the current, with the vallis too. Very nice. A lot of the fish are commonly available too. Just a thought.

llj

 

[jaarus]

Aquaclear makes a good HOB that is rated for a 110g aquarium, but I would rather get two that are rated for a 75g. So much better to over-filter, and you'll get better water circulation with two filters, one on each side. The filter in the Walmart kit is crap and you can't use your own media. Aquaclear is much more adaptable and pretty darn affordable. I really don't buy kits and often purchase things separately. It is a little bit more, but I then don't have a bunch of equipment that I have to get rid of later on. I echo Sam's question; high or low light? 55g is big enough that you could do some nice things.

I'm just giving an idea, but you know what I haven't seen in a long time? A nice cyprinid setup. Go with water a little cooler, 72 degrees or so. Many cyprinids actually appreciate the lower temp. Opt for lower light, not being biased, but it'll help the setup. Install a powerhead in one end so you get a really nice definite current. Plant crypts, vallis, ferns, Hygro, mosses, etc. Really feature branchy wood and rounded rocks in your hardscape, like a stream bed. Go for really crisp, clear water. Stock with danios, small botias, and peaceful barbs. That would be a super cool tank and pretty low-maintenance. You might be able to add hillstream loaches to this setup too. I can just see moss and java fern waving in the current, with the vallis too. Very nice. A lot of the fish are commonly available too. Just a thought.

llj

Man I wish my 'thoughts' were that thought through!!
hahaha

 

[wendywc]

I have a 4ft long 60 gallon you can have for $25. But I have no way to get it to you right now.

EDIT: It's very dirty... needs cleaning.

 

[ICEEGRL]

I am thinking betwee 2.5 and 3 wpg with some co2. I am even looking into EI dosing. I am hooked...
I want to be able to have some plants with some color. I also would like to have some of the curly vals and some of that short grass(sword) I can't think of the names right now.
I like the rocks and branchy wood. I have been trying to find some, but I have had no luck so far. I don't want to mail order it, because you don't get to pick. They just send you what ever they have. I tried that and got trash.
I am trying to get a list of things I will need to set up the tank so I can get it all together before I set it up.
I know the obvious... the tank, light, filter, co2, heater...
What I don't know is which ones to get, and what all I will need to go with them to make them do what I need. The tank and heater are a no brainer. The light, filter, and co2 I need help with. There are so many choices. It is quite confusing.

What kind of light fixture will work well with out costing a fortune? What kind of bulbs do I need? Which light timer works well that can control my lights?( and co2 if possible ) What co2 kit? What will I need for it? (diffuser, bubble counter, tubing, tester... ) What filter system, powerheads...

Alot of this stuff, I still don't know how they work or what is needed to run them. I still have lots to learn. That is why I need people that knows about them to tell me what all I will need and how to to make them function.

I know I want some kind of water flow that will help keep the nasty stuff from piling up on the bottom. I want it to help get the nasty stuff to where the filter can get most of it. I just don't know how to do that.

I also don't know enough about co2 systems. I just know I need it.

Things must be uncomplicated to assemble and run. I am still in the beginning learning stages, and am trying to learn so many things at the same time that I confuse easily right now.

I don't want a jungle look. I want a clear clean look. That is what I really like the most. Something that looks calm and relaxing.

Thanks for all help and info

Wendy... I sent you a message. I would like to get that tank from you too. What are you going to do with the other tank when you get all of your fish moved? Do you want to sell it too? What about lights, filters, pumps... Any extra stuff for sale? See what all you have that you might want to get rid of and let me know. Then we can do it all at one time.

 

[wendywc]

Wendy... I sent you a message. I would like to get that tank from you too. What are you going to do with the other tank when you get all of your fish moved? Do you want to sell it too? What about lights, filters, pumps... Any extra stuff for sale? See what all you have that you might want to get rid of and let me know. Then we can do it all at one time.

Message replied. Sorry, the 30 gallon is spoken for (by my husband!) and will be the new home to a female convict cichlid that he's fallen in love with and some tiger barbs. The only spare parts I have is a heater (I think). Nothing extra here anymore... I think I need everything I got.

-Wendy

 

[ICEEGRL]

ok. If you change your mind about the other tank between now and then you can let me know.
Does the 60 have any of the stuff to it?
I guess I will see you in July... Thanks again!

I guess I will be setting up 2 new tanks.
Lots of info needed...
Thanks everyone

 

[Underwurlde]

Hello.

I am thinking betwee 2.5 and 3 wpg with some co2. I am even looking into EI dosing. I am hooked...

Hmm. What if I said to you that you could have a VERY low maintenance tank, NO CO2, 2WPG (max) lighting, water changes, ooo once every 6 months, and dose ferts just once a week. And you can grow pretty much anything you wanted (albeit a bit slowly). Interested? This technique is Tom Barr's EI version of Diana Walstad's technique of keeping fish with plants. You'd need a good substate, but being state-side this won't be a problem for you.

^I like that idea, because CO2 is very 'difficult' IMO - it is expensive (on-going as well as initial), needs a lot of kit and difficult to set up because it is difficult yo measure accurately - bear this in mind because you have to keep it stable. If you go the inexpensive CO2 kit route, get 2 and stagger them - keeping these things stable is a pain and is higher maintenance. The ladders for these things look ugly and distract from the beauty of the tank.

That aside, personally I am not a great fan of putting things (kit) in the tank where they get in the way of your viewing pleasure, so I'd go for an external canister filter such as the excellent Eheim ECCO, a snip at £50 ($100 <- possible a lot cheaper as you don't live in rip-off Britain).

Andy

 

[ICEEGRL]

Andy... so where is the info on how it works? You failed to finish that story. There are major important details missing...
As for what I would say... HELLO... Where's the info?

 

[Underwurlde]

Don't you just hate it when someone does that to you...

Anyway, have a read (helps if you're clued up a bit on the principles of EI): http/www.barrreport.com/articles/433-non-co2-methods.html

Tom mentions many variants buried in this article as is typical of his experimental approach to things. I liked his idea of using CO2 in the form of Excel. Nice and easy. This has the advantage that plants grow faster than without any CO2 at all (apart from that which is naturally in the water), but does mean slightly higher fert dosing and instead of water changes every 6 monts, change the water every month. Anyway, this is still my idea of keeping tropical fish with plants with the absolute minimum of mucking about and spending a hell of a lot of dosh.

The use of high lighting (>2.0W/G), CO2, daily fert dosing will result in staggering plant growth and people I think assume that this has to be the way, that you have to use CO2 etc. but of course it is a pain - very high cost, difficult to set up (due to measuring issues with CO2) prone to error (due to CO2 stability issues) VERY high maintenance and don't forget, mega high plant growth will also result in a LOT of pruning.

Hope this is what you're after...

Andy

 

[ICEEGRL]

Thanks!
I have been doing taxes so I am a bit cross eyed right now. I will start on the reading in the morning. I have got to get a little rest now though.
I'm sure I will have questions... so check back.
Thanks again.

 

[ICEEGRL]

I have questions!
1. Can I use ecco-complete instead of the stuff he said?
2. If I do, how will this change what I would dose?
3. If I did more water changes, would that hurt it?
My water would be too brown for my taste from the tannis if I didn't do more frequent water changes. I like really clean clear water. What would my water look/smell like after that long?
4. What is NH4?
5. That is the only one he says to keep down. Is that really all I need to worry about to keep algae down?
6. Do you want less filtering to keep the "crap" or not?
7. What about carbon in the filter?
8. Without all the water changes... won't I need the carbon to help keep the water somewhat clean and smell free?
9. Is there an all in one to dose the things that he suggests?
10. How will it change things if I tend to have more fish than suggested? (like maybe twice as much)
11. Can you translate those ferts into English terms so I will know what they actually are?
12. Doing this, does this mean I can have by bubble bar and plants?
There are more, but this is already a lot...
Thank you very much! If I can figure it out well enough... this sounds very good to me.
Please provide answers to these... and keep checking in...
Thanks again!

 

[Underwurlde]

Crikey, just a few then.

First off, if you're keen for this technique, why not become a member of that forum and ask the man himself by subscribing to the posted thread?

Anyway:

1. Can I use ecco-complete instead of the stuff he said?
I don't see why not. The 'other stuff' Leonardite or Lignite or 'brown coal' is just less messy to start with because it takes a little time to get soaked.
I would go for the Leornardite - 1.5lb is $9.99 from hydrowholesale.com (who have very kindly sent me some to the UK).

2. If I do, how will this change what I would dose?
No change.

3. If I did more water changes, would that hurt it?
Yes - you want a natural balance between fish and plants. Think now of the plants as another filter system. If you want water changes for whatever reason, then Add CO2 in the form of Excel and do water changes once a month.

My water would be too brown for my taste from the tannis if I didn't do more frequent water changes. I like really clean clear water. What would my water look/smell like after that long?
Tannins from where?

4. What is NH4?
Ammonium - the NON toxic form of ammonia. Here's a thing: When you test for 'Ammonia' you actually test for NH3/NH4 (look at the box). i.e. you are testing the water for the COMBINATION of NH3: Ammonia (toxic) AND NH4: Ammonium (safe). To your plants and filter bacteria there is no difference, both get munched. Note that the pH of your water determines what % of the NH3/NH4 reading is actually Toxic NH3.... I can explain more of this very important topic more if you want.

5. That is the only one he says to keep down. Is that really all I need to worry about to keep algae down?
He's just saying keep an eye on it using test kits for pH and NH3/NH4. It is a natural balance you're after: The plants will tell you this.

6. Do you want less filtering to keep the "crap" or not?
Same filtering to start with. It is strange, as the plants take up NH3/NH4, then filters i.e. filter bacteria will get less grub and start to reduce. This is why it takes longer (or indeed never gets there) the cycle your FILTERS in a planted tank. And therein lies another train of thought: Do you really need to 'cycle' a planted tank, Diana Walstad would say not!

7. What about carbon in the filter?
NO! It is a planted tank. Only use carbon to remove meds after treatment.

8. Without all the water changes... won't I need the carbon to help keep the water somewhat clean and smell free?
No.
9. Is there an all in one to dose the things that he suggests?
I'll have a look when I get home tonight...

10. How will it change things if I tend to have more fish than suggested? (like maybe twice as much)
Hmm, it's a plants fish balance thing going on here... So I'd say don't go there unless perhaps you DO do more water changes.... Got me thinking now!

11. Can you translate those ferts into English terms so I will know what they actually are?
Sure can, what do you want to know?

12. Doing this, does this mean I can have by bubble bar and plants?
I'd say no. Bubble bars drive out any CO2 in the water and you want SOME in there for the plants to grow!

Keep 'em coming!

Andy

 

[ICEEGRL]

#1 leornardite-- what does it look like? With that do I still have to get that sand and soil, or can I do something else?

#3 The tannis would be from the wood. Should I not have wood in it?

#4 If you don't mind explaining things on beginner terms, that would be great! Most of it still confuses me.

#9 Let me know if you find something that has the ferts I will need without the ones I won't. The easier the better.

#10 It makes sense that if I have more fish then I could do a little more water changes. Think on it and let me know.

#11 He gave a list of ferts that should be dosed, but the only thing I half way knew what was was the excel and EQ. What are thous others?

I keep hearing people say "the plants will tell you"... Mine don't speak english!! Is there a list somewhere that will tell me what they are telling me, and if it is good or bad? I don't have a clue what the signs and symptoms are or mean...

Thanks Again...