Phosphates....im Confused

[Spiceweasel69]

I know plants need the phosphates, but i had a look and lots of information says that i need to REMOVE phosphates. Theres loads of products that eliminate phosphates in the aquarium. Im a bit confused. Do i need them or not?

 

[George Farmer]

I'll keep it simple.

You only need to add phosphates (PO4) if you have a high-growth tank i.e. lots of light, CO2, plants etc.

You only need to remove PO4 if you have massive levels in your tap water and you have low-growth.

Other than that you can generally leave PO4 alone.

 

[Spiceweasel69]

Ta for that. I have started diy co2 and getting good results. My plants are getting fresh and green from the bottom up, and the browny yellow is disappearing. I now that with co2 i need decent ferts as they will just die as they use it up quicker. I was gonna go for the PMDD route. Do you suggest phosphate, nitrate and potassium? Tank isnt heavily planted now, but im gonna order from greenline and get a 4ft collection.

 

[George Farmer]

Do you suggest phosphate, nitrate and potassium?

What tank size and lighting do you have?

 

[Spiceweasel69]

Juwel Vision 260 with 2 x 38 watt standard tubes

 

[George Farmer]

Juwel Vision 260 with 2 x 38 watt standard tubes

Then you won't need to add additional nitrates and phosphates.

Potassium may be a good idea though. You can buy it "off-the-shelf" in liquid ferts i.e. API Leaf Zone. This will give you iron too. Or you can do it a lot cheaper by buying the raw powder forms - Potassium sulphate (K2SO4) and a Trace mix that will provide iron as well as other micronutrients (that API Leaf Zone does not provide).

Note that while buying the dry ferts may appear more expensive initially, they will be much, much cheaper than buying bottles of "ready-made" ferts in the long-term. The K2SO4 and trace will last you months, even years depending on quantity. A 240ml bottle of ready-made liquid fert will only last a few weeks in your size tank and at around £6 bottle......

Have you fitted reflectors or changed the supplied Juwel tubes with full-spectrum types? This will improve your growth considerably.

 

[Themuleous]

Hi george and co

Just a quicky, the EI article says to add 5ml trace on alternate days, but if I make up a stock solution will this vary the amount I need to add? I guess what I'm really asking is how do you know how much to add? Or is there a test you can do to make sure I'm at the right levels?

Thanks all

Sam

PS got the new tank, and some plants, should get the substrate by the weekend, then its EI city for this bad boy! Cant wait!

PPS if you hear of any HC going spare or being sold would greatly appreciate the heads-up, I'm having a pig of a time getting it!

 

[Spiceweasel69]

NO i dont have reflectors yet. I was gonna ask thier effectiveness. I mean, it says it increases light 100%. So if i have 76 watts total then do i have in effect 152 watts? Im in the balance of wondering if theyre worth it, and if thuy will make that much of a difference. I have changed one of the tubes to a triplus. which is ever so slightly lilacy, whilst the other is bright white.
Im looging into doing ferts as i said, and im not sure what to go for. Was looking at Leaf Zone, then was looking at PMDD nitrates, phosphates, Trace mix and sulphates.

THEN i saw on greenline they do the aqua grov bags i can leave in the tank for up to 3 months. Has anyone tried these? What results did you get. Will go for these if theyre good as they will eliminate hassle of dosing on right days, and also as theyare quite a good price, 15 quid for 9 months supply....

 

[Themuleous]

NO i dont have reflectors yet. I was gonna ask thier effectiveness. I mean, it says it increases light 100%. So if i have 76 watts total then do i have in effect 152 watts? Im in the balance of wondering if theyre worth it, and if thuy will make that much of a difference. I have changed one of the tubes to a triplus. which is ever so slightly lilacy, whilst the other is bright white.
Im looging into doing ferts as i said, and im not sure what to go for. Was looking at Leaf Zone, then was looking at PMDD nitrates, phosphates, Trace mix and sulphates.

THEN i saw on greenline they do the aqua grov bags i can leave in the tank for up to 3 months. Has anyone tried these? What results did you get. Will go for these if theyre good as they will eliminate hassle of dosing on right days, and also as theyare quite a good price, 15 quid for 9 months supply....

Hi,

I can’t comment on the grow bags, but I’m pretty sure most people on here would say that if you're going to go fully EI planted that dosing the separate ferts plus a trace mix would be the best option, all-in-one kits like that are never going to be as effective as adding them separately.

As to the reflectors, unless you have a hood that is made of mirrored glass, then add then in! If you think about it, about 50% of the light that the bulb produces goes out the top, a reflector (as the name suggests ) reflects this otherwise lost light back into the aquarium.

I can't say I've hear of them increasing light input by 100%, an 18w bulb will only ever give you 18w of light its just that with reflectors nearly all of its goes to the plants. I guess that 100% increase fact could come from the fact that without then around 50% gets to the tank so adding one will get the remaining 50% to the tank, which is in effect a 100% increase, if that makes sense!

At the end of the day, I would get them they are certainly worth the money, its not as if they are hugely expensive and they should never need replacing so it is definitely worth the investment.

Hope this helps

Sam

 

[George Farmer]

Just a quicky, the EI article says to add 5ml trace on alternate days, but if I make up a stock solution will this vary the amount I need to add? I guess what I'm really asking is how do you know how much to add?

For this trace mix then the recommended dose is -

“For preparing a stock solution add 1 tablespoon of trace mix to 500ml of water. Then add 10ml per 100 litres as required.”

I suggest that “as required” would be every other day (off macro).

Personally I mix 1 tablespoon per 250ml RO. Then I add 10ml solution every other day in my 125 litre. This is more than the recommended dosing but it works for me.

Obviously some trial and error will need to be undertaken. The general rule of thumb is add more until you don’t see any improvement in growth. Be careful not to add too much though, I’ve experience iron toxicity in my Anubias before now.

NO i dont have reflectors yet. I was gonna ask thier effectiveness. I mean, it says it increases light 100%. So if i have 76 watts total then do i have in effect 152 watts? Im in the balance of wondering if theyre worth it, and if thuy will make that much of a difference. I have changed one of the tubes to a triplus. which is ever so slightly lilacy, whilst the other is bright white.
Im looging into doing ferts as i said, and im not sure what to go for. Was looking at Leaf Zone, then was looking at PMDD nitrates, phosphates, Trace mix and sulphates.

THEN i saw on greenline they do the aqua grov bags i can leave in the tank for up to 3 months. Has anyone tried these? What results did you get. Will go for these if theyre good as they will eliminate hassle of dosing on right days, and also as theyare quite a good price, 15 quid for 9 months supply....

I recommend the Juwel or Arcadia reflectors. There is increased intensity but not by 100%. This is physically impossible due to the restrike (light constantly bouncing back and forth between the tube and reflector) and the mirrored surface will never be 100% reflective. If you use the Watts per Gallon "rule" then this already assumes you have decent reflectors fitted.

As I mentioned I doubt you'll need to think about adding nitrates and phosphates. With 1.1 WPG you won't get the growth necessary to use up enough NO3 and PO4 to justify their addition.

Trace mix and Potassium sulphate should be sufficient. The Greenline fert bags may also work well for you but you eliminate any control over dosing which can be a disadvantage if you experienced deficiencies. For instance if you had iron def you could add more trace mix, potassium def and add more Potassium sulphate.

 

[Themuleous]

Cheers George will give it a try

Sam

 

[Spiceweasel69]

just bought a reflector. They only had one. Dammit. Makes a big difference tho

 

[George Farmer]

just bought a reflector. They only had one. Dammit. Makes a big difference tho

If you haven't already, fit it to the Triplus tube for best results.

 

[Spiceweasel69]

really? i fitted it to the daylight one as it was at the front and easier to get to. Im gonna get another tomorrow. I noticed a considerable difference in light. Hope its gonna make a real difference with the plants.
Think ill go for the trace mix too, with the suplhates. My lfs sells API Leaf zone the 473ml for 7.50. Is it worth getting that too?
cheers scot

 

[George Farmer]

really? i fitted it to the daylight one as it was at the front and easier to get to. Im gonna get another tomorrow. I noticed a considerable difference in light. Hope its gonna make a real difference with the plants.
Think ill go for the trace mix too, with the suplhates. My lfs sells API Leaf zone the 473ml for 7.50. Is it worth getting that too?
cheers scot

Yes, really. I'm not in the habit of giving duff advice. The Triplus tube is superior to the supplied Juwel so increasing the intensity of this is more beneficial.

No need for the Leaf Zone, the trace mix and Potassium sulphate provides everything you should need, that's the whole idea behind buying the dry ferts - to save cash!