Ph 6 Kh 25ppm = Co2 33ppm

[craynerd]

Guys, setting up a new planted tank over the last few weeks and used the forum relentlasly for information. Its all planted, all setup, CO2 unit going, 2 X15W arcadia lights....THEN i was ill advised by my LFS to add fish to start the cycle, cardinal tetras 10 of them.

Now i know i should have run a fishless cycle, BUT its been done now, and i`ve spent £25 and can`t afford to take them back, since they said they won`t give me my ££ back!!

SO please can you advise me on what route i should take to increase pH and KH and maintain healthy fish and complete the cycle.!!!

The tanks looking awesum and i just want it to stay that way, but under these circumstances i doubt if it will!!

PLEASE: I KNOW i should have done a fishless cycle, so you don`t have to labour this point since i know its wrong, but could you help address the issue i am now faced with, hope you can help!!! Really value all your advice!

Chris

 

[George Farmer]

pH 6 and KH 25ppm is fine for Cardinal tetras. Just peform at least a third water change per week to ensure your pH doesn't crash.

I assume you are planted heavily? The rapid growth of your plants will deal with any excess NH4, NO2 etc. With such a low pH the NH3/4 balance is mostly ammonium and therefore far less toxic.

You can perform more regular water changes if you like i.e. 25% a day or twice a day. Test regularly for NH3/4 and ensure it stays below 0.1ppm.

If you want to buffer your water then adding 1 teaspoon of baking soda will increase KH by 1 degree (17.9ppm) for every 100 Litres.

 

[Themuleous]

Hi Chris,

That’s a bit rubbish of your fish shop; you may want to think twice about going back?

As for the cardinals, a pH of 6 is nothing to worry about with this species, they should do fine as they can cope with a pH down to around 5 so you should be ok. However, they are sensitive to ammonia and NO2 so they are not a great fish to cycle a tank with. I’m not having a go I promise just amazed that your fish shop recommended them for this purpose!

To keep them happy you are going to need to keep a very watchful eye on the ammonia and NO2, and stamp on it hard if it starts to increase, ideally you want readings of 0, this will probably mean you have to do lots of water changes, probably 50% almost every days until the filter has had an opportunity to catch up with the bioload. If you have two tanks you could cut the sponge in the other one in half and swap it with some in the new filter, this works really well in new tanks. But that’s only helpful if you've got two tanks.

Other than that if it were me I would use extra stress zyme (or other such bacterial/filter aid) to help boost the filter. There are also products like ammo-lock which you can use to neutralise the ammonia, but never used it myself so cant comment further. Think Kent Ammonia detox also removes Nitrite.

If you still want to get the KH up you can add bicarbonate of soda, but do it slowly and in very small amounts, if you go from pH6 to pH7 in one go you’ll probably kill all your fish. Or guess if you live in a hard water area you can get add ‘pure’ (but de-chlorinated obviously) water that’ll probably increase KH too.

Hope this helps and you don’t lose too many fish along the way.

Sam

EDIT - you beat me to it George! Ditto what he said

 

[lljdma06]

Chris, if you have more than 50% or 75%, I can't remember which, of the substrate covered with live plants, then a fishless cycle is not really necessary. The plants consume the nitrogen compounds produced by the fish waste, and there is enough beneficial bacteria already living on the surface of the plants. I am over-generalizing here, and this doesn't mean I advocate not cycling tanks. I think tanks have to be cycled, there are just different ways of doing them. I had to edit this because I was asking for trouble before. I know I usually do not cycle my heavily planted tanks in a sense. Now, do I add the entire bioload at once, no. It's kind of a modified cycling with fish, but I really don't have problems with ammonia. I have to dose Nitrates!

Now, do I think that your LFS made a booboo with the cardinal tetras, yes. I waited a year before I kept mine in a 45g. As far as I know, cardinals do very well with an acidic pH. It took me a year to get the pH in that tank at 6.8. If you acclimate them slowly, they should be fine. My big worry for you are fluctuating pH and kH levels in your tank to maintain proper CO2 levels. A hardier fish could deal with this better. I keep my pH at 7 and my kH at 10, giving me 30ppm. At the most, it'll waver between pH 6.8-7.0 and kH 7-10, but this is really not that big a swing and it usually happens over the course of a week. I am using kH in degrees, not ppm. I'm looking at my chart and in order to get a reading that is close to yours, you would have a kH of between 1 and 1.5 degrees. Your kH is quite low. I would say add bicarbonate, but I think you need to wait around until some one with soft water with experience shows up. I will tell you this, cardinals love that soft water, so I don't think you'll have a problem unless your readings aren't stable.

Sorry, I couldn't help more, but I have harder water than you and not much experience hardening my water. Now to soften it, I can give all the advice in the world!

EDIT: George and Sam, beat me to it!

 

[karlp]

Blimey I wouldn't use cardinals to cycle a tank! Bad advice from the LFS.

Anyway, as lljdma06 says. Plant it heavily now and you may avoid the inevitable onslaught of fish deaths, fungus and white spot.

Also look at seeing if you can either get: Bactinette, Bio-Spira or a mature sponge from a fish keeping friend (maybe get some from the LFS). These are the only way I know of short cutting the cycle.

Stresszyme and all the similar products are a waste of time and money IMHO.

Good luck!

 

[Themuleous]

Stresszyme and all the similar products are a waste of time and money IMHO.

Just out of curiosity what makes you say that?

 

[craynerd]

Guys your comments have been fantastic! I will post some pics of the fish tank later so you can have a look!

The Ammonia, nitrate and nitrite are all 0! May do a water change in a few days or tomorrow if these figures change.

Cardinals seem happy enough, all feed VERY well this afternoon, although i`m reluctant to give them too much incase i cause an ammonia spike? is this a worthy consideration, or stick to the all they can eat in 2 mins rule?

Also:

Would a O2 unit be beneficial timed to come on when the lights go off to try and drive some of the CO2 out of the water?

Thanks again.
Chris

 

[craynerd]

added pics,

Chris

 

[lljdma06]

It looks good Chris, I'm with Fishkiller, that red plant is suspicious to me. The big thing to avoid with cardinals are large ph swings. If you drive out your CO2 with O2, chances are you'll have a rise in pH and that's not so good. If they are fine, with erect fins, and eating well, it is best to let things alone, and let them deal with the natural small pH swing that occurs through out the day in a planted tank.

Another piece of advice, your anubia is a bit exposed. Now mine are exposed to direct light as well, but my tank is considerable more over grown than yours is. If it is an anubia, which I think it is, you might want to invest in a vew plants to kind of shade it a bit. It's not like it won't survive, but anubia leaves are especially prone to algae.

What is that big blue blob in the top right that looks like it has a plant in it?

 

[Themuleous]

What is that big blue blob in the top right that looks like it has a plant in it?

Ill have a punt at that one - looks like Egeria? No?

Sam

 

[craynerd]

Thanks for replys!

lljd, the anubia isn`t doing to good! i`ve tried to hide it a bit more like you said.

Themule.. nope not Egeria...anyone else fancy a pop?

 

[lljdma06]

Thanks for replys!

lljd, the anubia isn`t doing to good! i`ve tried to hide it a bit more like you said.

Themule.. nope not Egeria...anyone else fancy a pop?

A cabomba? Why don't you give us a break and plant it? Silly, how are we supposed to guess if it's covered by a net?

Is your anubia by any chance in the substrate? They grow via rhizome and that cannot be buried in substrate as the rhizome needs to be exposed to the water current or it will rot. Perhaps even if it is not completely buried, the rhizome is too hidden by the wood. If you exposed it a bit more, maybe that will help.

 

[craynerd]

Silly, how are we supposed to guess if it's covered by a net?...chill!

Its riccia and its dividing ready for my riccia lawn!

 

[Themuleous]

Themule.. nope not Egeria...anyone else fancy a pop?

Dam, felt sure it was! dont have a clue other than that!

Sam

 

[lljdma06]

Well, it's obviously riccia with that shot! You chill! Silly, silly. What are you going to put the riccia on? The driftwood? That'll be a great touch. Look forward to seeing that all done.

So any news on your anubia?