Paraguard by seachem

[Perbud]

Hi all,
Does anyone have experience with Paraguard by seachem regarding using it for ich.
Is it safe for tetras and corys and how should I dose it. Do I have to remove car

 

[Perbud]

Do I have to remove carbon?

 

[FishGuest5123]

I was going to try it too but also have tetras and cories. @Byron, @Colin_T???

 

[Perbud]

I heArd that it has malichite green which is a carcinogen

 

[FishGuest5123]

Most of them do. What doesn’t these days? You would have to be exposed to an awful lot of it and long exposure. What they do to lab rats is sinful.

 

[FishGuest5123]

I ordered some and going to try it. Should be here tomorrow. Check with me in a few days and I’ll let you know how it goes. I asked my vet friend and he said it was safe to use with cories but to start with 1/2 dose and watch them. Then build up to full dose.

 

[Colin_T]

Paraguard contains aldehydes (formaldehyde), malachite green and fish protective polymers.

No idea what fish protective polymers are but it contains the same basic ingredients as Ich-X and most other white spot medications.

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You need to remove carbon from filters any time you use chemical medications.

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For Deanasue, if the other medications didn't work, then this one won't either because they contain the same ingredients.

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If anyone has resistant strains of white spot, either use copper or move the fish into a clean container every day for 2 weeks.

The following link has info on white spot, including the moving technique. The first post on page 1 and second post on page 2 are worth reading.

What is ICH?

This is a common question that is often asked, what is ich and how is it recognisable and what causes it? The real term is ICHTHYOPHTHIRIASIS. OR commonly known as white spot. It is an extremely comon parasite that affects aquarium fish. It is highly infectious and potentially lethal and...

www.fishforums.net

 

[FishGuest5123]

@Colin_T I have about 40 fish that I would have to catch and move daily. I just can’t imagine doing that. ParaGuard actually isn’t the same as Ich-X. The copper isn’t an option with the cories. I do sincerely appreciate all of your suggestions but don’t think they will work for me. Only option I have left is to remove all the fish and treat in another tank while I let the main tank go fallow for a couple of weeks. Possibly crank the heat up to 90F too if I can get it that high. I only have 2 fish with one spot each now but just can’t get the ick to go away completely. I have 4 QT tanks full of fish waiting to move into the community tank but have to get the ich out first. Very perplexing!

 

[Byron]

Hi all,
Does anyone have experience with Paraguard by seachem regarding using it for ich.
Is it safe for tetras and corys and how should I dose it. Do I have to remove car

Do not use this, it is not fish safe for soft water species. Many of us have already sorted your ich problem out in the other thread...just raise the temperature for two weeks to 86F and ich will be gone.

 

[FishGuest5123]

Do not use this, it is not fish safe for soft water species. Many of us have already sorted your ich problem out in the other thread...just raise the temperature for two weeks to 86F and ich will be gone.

@Byron, I use to believe that. You guys make this sound so friggin’ easy. I use to think it was too. Well, it’s NOT! I am so frustrated. So here’s to all of you... THE HEAT AT 88F AND SALT IS NOT ERADICATING MY ICH. I’m not stupid. I have treated ich for years. You are not in my shoes right now. This is horrible. Over a month with heat and salt. 12 days with Ich-X and heat. Ich-X alone. Now, ParaGuard. Why is it going to kill our fish? Please explain. We need to know. Right now they are eating dinner and seem happy. I know this is ich. Guess what? The Ich is killing my fish too! Should I just sit and watch with my temp at 88F and not try everything I can? I know it’s not going away. I apologize for my frustrations but quit making this sound like it’s so easy. It is the worse thing I have been through with fish. Even Columnaris! This began May 19th for me. I’m an expert in ich now. Except for how to kill this strain! I wouldn’t wish this on any of you!!! Sigh.. What’s the use? I realize that heat/salt has been the “Go to” for decades but these new strains of ich are getting smarter than us. Perbud may be going through the same thing as I am. The ParaGuard is not killing my fish so it may be worth a try. Desperate people take desperate measures.

 

[Byron]

@Byron, I use to believe that. You guys make this sound so friggin’ easy. I use to think it was too. Well, it’s NOT! I am so frustrated. So here’s to all of you... THE HEAT AT 88F AND SALT IS NOT ERADICATING MY ICH. I’m not stupid. I have treated ich for years. You are not in my shoes right now. This is horrible. Over a month with heat and salt. 12 days with Ich-X and heat. Ich-X alone. Now, ParaGuard. Why is it going to kill our fish? Please explain. We need to know. Right now they are eating dinner and seem happy. I know this is ich. Guess what? The Ich is killing my fish too! Should I just sit and watch with my temp at 88F and not try everything I can? I know it’s not going away. I apologize for my frustrations but quit making this sound like it’s so easy. It is the worse thing I have been through with fish. Even Columnaris! This began May 19th for me. I’m an expert in ich now. Except for how to kill this strain! I wouldn’t wish this on any of you!!! Sigh.. What’s the use?

I will keep this brief. I left your particular issue with Colin, and if memory serves me he did once or twice muse it might not be ich. If it was, this case was clearly the exception, but this happens. When I contacted Neale Monks three years ago for advice in dealing with some form of parasite (I assumed) that had plagued my fish in one tank for two years, he suggested it could be a virulent strain of ich, or it could be something similar, and recommended the heat and salt (that did work, whatever it was). I don't know how many members here have advised heat for ich, and had success. Even more relevant, I also know that Neale Monks and Ian Fuller said it is far safer than any chemical treatment for characins and cories. With respect, they know more about fish than you and I likely ever will. Some years ago I was considering a similar treatment containing both malachite green and formaldehyde; a marine biologist, two in fact, said this was dangerous and not advisable. All of this ends the argument for me, I cannot and will not argue contrary to such learned authorities.

As to how these dangerous toxic chemical substances harm fish, that would take a series of classes on fish physiology; I have tried explaining this in so many posts over the last several years. But earlier today I posted the following trying to answer a similar question, this deals with why most all of these substances should never be used with characins, and this is instructive.

Characins have an unusually high chemical sensitivity. When a characin is injured, it releases an alarm pheromone called Schreckstoff into the water that triggers an escape response in other members of the species. Other species do not respond to the presence of the pheromones. This chemical warning system may explain their heightened sensitivity to medications and fluctuating water conditions in the aquarium. All characins are highly sensitive to water parameters and conditions; the water quality should be stable, and use of medications should be avoided unless absolutely essential.​

Understanding fish physiology and their intricate relationship to their aquatic environment is crucial.

 

[FishGuest5123]

I will keep this brief. I left your particular issue with Colin, and if memory serves me he did once or twice muse it might not be ich. If it was, this case was clearly the exception, but this happens. When I contacted Neale Monks three years ago for advice in dealing with some form of parasite (I assumed) that had plagued my fish in one tank for two years, he suggested it could be a virulent strain of ich, or it could be something similar, and recommended the heat and salt (that did work, whatever it was). I don't know how many members here have advised heat for ich, and had success. Even more relevant, I also know that Neale Monks and Ian Fuller said it is far safer than any chemical treatment for characins and cories. With respect, they know more about fish than you and I likely ever will. Some years ago I was considering a similar treatment containing both malachite green and formaldehyde; a marine biologist, two in fact, said this was dangerous and not advisable. All of this ends the argument for me, I cannot and will not argue contrary to such learned authorities.

As to how these dangerous toxic chemical substances harm fish, that would take a series of classes on fish physiology; I have tried explaining this in so many posts over the last several years. But earlier today I posted the following trying to answer a similar question, this deals with why most all of these substances should never be used with characins, and this is instructive.

Characins have an unusually high chemical sensitivity. When a characin is injured, it releases an alarm pheromone called Schreckstoff into the water that triggers an escape response in other members of the species. Other species do not respond to the presence of the pheromones. This chemical warning system may explain their heightened sensitivity to medications and fluctuating water conditions in the aquarium. All characins are highly sensitive to water parameters and conditions; the water quality should be stable, and use of medications should be avoided unless absolutely essential.​

Understanding fish physiology and their intricate relationship to their aquatic environment is crucial.

I appreciate the explanation but I still have a tank of ich on my hands. For the record, ParaGuard does not contain formaldehyde. It doesn’t really matter now anyway. I have exhausted all means of treatment. Thank you for all of your help though.

 

[Colin_T]

Para Guard contains aldehydes, which are a type of formaldehyde. It's meant to be less toxic than formaldehyde but it's still a preservative.

You can try Triple Sulpha/ Tri Sulfer or Praziquantel.
Triple sulpha was used years ago to treat white spot on Corydoras but it was mis-used by lots of people and the parasites and bacteria became resistant to is.

Praziquantel is a tapeworm treatment and treats gill flukes. The guys at one of my local pet shops said they tried it on white spot and it worked. I haven't used it for that purpose but you could try it. Try to get pure Praziquantel and not the API General Cure, which contains Metronidazole.

If you have the fish in a plastic storage container and use a 12 inch fish net, you should be able to scoop all the neons out in 1 scoop. Then move them into another container for 24 hours before scooping and moving again. I know you don't like the idea of trying to catch 40 fish but neons stay in a group and you could easily get them out in 1 or 2 scoops if you use a decent size net.

 

[FishGuest5123]

Para Guard contains aldehydes, which are a type of formaldehyde. It's meant to be less toxic than formaldehyde but it's still a preservative.

You can try Triple Sulpha/ Tri Sulfer or Praziquantel.
Triple sulpha was used years ago to treat white spot on Corydoras but it was mis-used by lots of people and the parasites and bacteria became resistant to is.

Praziquantel is a tapeworm treatment and treats gill flukes. The guys at one of my local pet shops said they tried it on white spot and it worked. I haven't used it for that purpose but you could try it. Try to get pure Praziquantel and not the API General Cure, which contains Metronidazole.

If you have the fish in a plastic storage container and use a 12 inch fish net, you should be able to scoop all the neons out in 1 scoop. Then move them into another container for 24 hours before scooping and moving again. I know you don't like the idea of trying to catch 40 fish but neons stay in a group and you could easily get them out in 1 or 2 scoops if you use a decent size net.

Thanks, @Colin_T. That will be my last ditch effort. Right now I am sticking to the heat and a little salt. Going to do this for 2 more weeks. I read ich can take up to 5 weeks to go away in highly resistant strains. I’m vacuuming the sand every day too. No meds. If no improvement in 2 weeks, I’ll do the tub transfer you suggest. Once a fish has gotten over ich, can he still be a carrier of it and transfer to others? I read this one place but never heard that before.

 

[Colin_T]

If a fish is free of white spot, it cannot give to another fish because it no longer has the parasite.

If there are free swimming parasites in the water, they can be transferred into another tank on plants, ornaments, driftwood and the water. But if there's no parasites left alive in the water, it is safe.