Overstocked?

[Llegmore]

The stocking plans for my 180 litres (39 gallon) tank are:
-2x African Butterfly Fish
-2x Twig Catfish
-6x Panda Cory
-6x Leopard Cory
-2x Cockatoo Apisto
-5x Cherry Shrimp

Do you guys think this is overstocked? Would there be any conflicts in the tank? I was going for a peaceful vibe for once.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

My biggest worry would be making sure the Panda Corydoras are not tiny youngsters that may be tempt a juvenile ABF to at least try to catch them in their trapdoor mouth, Don't get me wrong. I love ABF, but with the rest of your stocking I would be more swayed by Hatchetfish; Pencilfish or Forktial Blue Eye Rainbowfish (If biotype correct species were not a priority) for upper water dwellers.

Alternatively, I would go for a classic African oddball setup, something like...
3x ABF
3 or 4x Leopard Bushfish
8-10 Upside Down Catfish

 

[Llegmore]

My biggest worry would be making sure the Panda Corydoras are not tiny youngsters that may be tempt a juvenile ABF to at least try to catch them in their trapdoor mouth, Don't get me wrong. I love ABF, but with the rest of your stocking I would be more swayed by Hatchetfish; Pencilfish or Forktial Blue Eye Rainbowfish (If biotype correct species were not a priority) for upper water dwellers.

Alternatively, I would go for a classic African oddball setup, something like...
3x ABF
3 or 4x Leopard Bushfish
8-10 Upside Down Catfish

I was originally determined to stick to African species but availability is an issue. I also don't trust myself to keep oddballs ... yet.

I'm kind of determined to get the butterfly fish as I've set up the whole tank with them in mind. I'd rather have just them and nobody else than rule them out of my plans.

I would try and get small butterflies and big cories. That was the issue I was thinking of really. Those big mouths If I put the cories in about a month before the butterflies, would there be less danger? I was hoping they'd just stick to the bottom.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

The catfish will shoot upto the water surface regualrly to gulp air

 

[Llegmore]

me want cories AND butterflies. lol.

 

[Wills]

Got to agree with Goat, you could choose to have one or go for both and end up with just the Butterflies...

Wills

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Another solution could be to simply choose a larger Corydoras species. Now my memory is not great and I do move my fish around at regular intervals between my six tanks, in the hope of mixing more compatable fish together (in terms of general behaviour; eating habits; temp etc.), but I might have mixed my group of Corydoras sterbai without issue with my two ABF last year in both my 620T and my Rio240.

My ABF have been fine in water that is maintained at a minimum of 22C (often naturally rises to ~25C in the summer from room temperature), but given they originate from gentle moving streams in Africa (so intense sun with little aggitation will really warm the water well), they would probably be much happier in the relms of 24-27C for most of the year. In this respect, Corydoras Panda is not the best choice again, as it is believed to be much happier in the low 20s. However, Corydoras sterbai thrive in 24-28C water, or if you wanted to eliminate the risk completely of the ABF trying to eat a catfish you could choose the lovely chunky Brochis splendens (Emerald Brochis/Cory) that reach ~9cm (almost as big as your ABF is ever likely to grow to) and are built like tanks.

I had groups of 10 C. sterbai and 11 B. splendens living together in my Rio240 last summer (with at least my 4 Leopard Bushfish, possibly my 2 ABF too) and this brought about a massive change in the behaviour of the sterbai from being really skittish catfish that would constantly hide to being reassured by the far more confident Brochis, who acted as great dithers for them. It was great to see these 21 catfish moving across the floor like a mixed species "flock of birds!" I was quite sad when I felt I had to rehome them all to one buyer, after looking at what fish I had and seeing that almost everything I had was fish that either live on the tank floor or very close.

On final thing regards your "I also don't trust myself to keep oddballs" comment, there are exceptions, but some oddballs like the ones I suggested are really hardy fish providing you get their tankmates right (chilled out swimmers, non-aggessive eaters, not very territorial). Some are very sensitive to water chemistry; need special diets; need 100% escape proof tanks to prevent fatal kamikaze attempts (which include ABF incidentally, they have been known to leap upto 3 feet out of water). Some are really long lived, for instance I hope to have my Leopard Bushfish for another 15-20 years.

 

[sadguppy]

My biggest worry would be making sure the Panda Corydoras are not tiny youngsters that may be tempt a juvenile ABF to at least try to catch them in their trapdoor mouth, Don't get me wrong. I love ABF, but with the rest of your stocking I would be more swayed by Hatchetfish; Pencilfish or Forktial Blue Eye Rainbowfish (If biotype correct species were not a priority) for upper water dwellers.

Alternatively, I would go for a classic African oddball setup, something like...
3x ABF
3 or 4x Leopard Bushfish
8-10 Upside Down Catfish

I was originally determined to stick to African species but availability is an issue. I also don't trust myself to keep oddballs ... yet.

I'm kind of determined to get the butterfly fish as I've set up the whole tank with them in mind. I'd rather have just them and nobody else than rule them out of my plans.

I would try and get small butterflies and big cories. That was the issue I was thinking of really. Those big mouths If I put the cories in about a month before the butterflies, would there be less danger? I was hoping they'd just stick to the bottom.

Availability on the above species shouldn't be a problem; I have seen leopard bush fish in a local P@H and upside down catfish in MA.

 

[Llegmore]

Cheers for all the information. Of course I won't get cories if there's a chance they'll be in danger. They're just so cute. Like puppies!

I did really like leopard bushfish when I was researching them. But I really can't find them anywhere. I've tried Pets at home and maidenheads as well as several huge lfs's.

What do you guys think about the Apistos - say if I don't go down the totally African route?

My issue with upsides down catfish is the way I've planted the tank. There's not much floorspace left - which is another thing I was concerned about for the cories. I don't think a group of them would be comfortable.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Synodontis nigriventris (the true "Upside Down Catfish") spends very little time on the tank floor, a heavily planted tank with lots of broad strong leaves is perfect for them, they roost under leaves and any cave-like structures during the day treading water upside down. They will scoot across the tank floor the right way up if sinking food is offered, but they are equally at home taking floating food from the surface, which is the reason why they are evolutionally designed.

But equally, Corydoras/Brochis will enjoy the cover offered by a "jungle" and should encourage them to stay seen out and about most of the time.

I don't know enough about Apistogramma spp. to know for sure they would not nip the ABF trailling fins or attack/kill the shrimp, but generally they are not considered highly aggressive dwarf cichlis. For something considered even more mellow mannered, you could look at Laetacara spp, Keyhole Cichlids; African Butterfly Cichlids etc.

What dimensions does this 180l tank have?

Any thoughts on some sort of midwater schooling species? Congo Tetras are tried and tested tankmates for ABF, but they are much better suited to >4-foot tanks.

 

[Llegmore]

It's a Rio 180 so 101 X 41 X 50cm. So 3.5 feet long. I'm guessing too small for congos.

That's cool about the upside down catfish. I'll have to look out for them. They'd love my driftwood cave.

I'll be sure to check out the cichlids and see if I can find some good stock in my lfs. Honestly, just when I've decided on the stocking you get me persuaded to stick to African again.