Oodinium?

merry78

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Hi all, i posted a few days ago regarding flicking guppies, and now another symptom has developed.

Tank size: 65L
pH: 7.5ish and very stable
ammonia:0
nitrite:0
nitrate:>20
kH:
gH:unknown thought to be medium-hard water based on tapwater test at lfs nearly a year ago.
tank temp:26C

Fish Symptoms:
early indicator was mild flicking, still present but still infrequent, has spread to corys.
new symptom is orange patch behind gills of flicking fish, at the site that they appear to be trying to scratch with the flicking. The orange is about the colour of the inside of a pumpkin, smooth, and as shiny as the rest of the fishes' body. It is not powdery or speckley, just one solid small patch of colour. The fish are still dropping fry, eating and swimming normally, except that there is more time spent resting.

Volume and Frequency of water changes:
Normally 25-30% weekly, but has been 10% daily recently, as the water appeared slightly cloudy (possibly from overfeeding to ensure fry got some food). Symptoms appeared before water change frequency increased. Previously added salt (aquarium salt) and increased temp to alleviate flicking, but changed salt out of water as i read somewhere that corys don't like salt.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
Water dechlorinator, bio and mechanical filtration (8x).

Tank inhabitants:
7 female, 1 male guppy, 3 corys.

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):
more live plants added to boost shelter, plants from same source went into another tank same day, no illness developed in other tank (teenage guppy fry in other tank).

Exposure to chemicals:
none known.

So, my question is, should i remove fry to teen fry tank and risk cross infection? (fry in affected tank appear healthy) Can corys take salt? If it is oodinium, will my filter be infected (can't set up qt tank without a filter from this infected tank, no spare filters currently, although 3 filters in infected tank.)? I have a med to treat for fungus, and one for bacteria, but they haven't been used for a while, can malachite green and similar go off? Will meds cause my guppy girls to abort?

Any help/ opinions greatly appreciated!!!!! Have not had to deal with illness for a while (since i've been breeding), so don't know how to handle sick preggers girls and bubs!
 
bump, please? have to go to bed soon so i can get up and go to work in the morning, i don't want to treat them tonight without hearing others opinions, but it looks like i'm gonna have to...
 
Try to keep your nitrates under 20 PPM. Turn up your heat to 87F, slowly 1 degree an hour, and leave it there for 2-3 weeks. This will kill of ich if this is what is happening. Do you have pictures?
 
as for your bubs.... use otheragentm's idea and you might also want to add some of that med but only use half dosage. as for the females i wouldnt worry bout the pregnency they may abort but that is a small price to pay for nursing your fishies back to health. plus there guppies. theyll be breeden again in no time.
good luck,
community
 
The orange is about the colour of the inside of a pumpkin, smooth, and as shiny as the rest of the fishes' body. It is not powdery or speckley, just one solid small patch of colour.

To me that doesn't sound like oodinium?
 
Thanks so much for your help guys, have already treated at 3/4 dosage and increased temp.
Yes, there is increased respiration (have increased aeration to compensate). Am also keeping tank dark as i have read that some parasites photosynthesise. I added the medication just under 24 hrs ago, and the fry (and all others) still seem quite happy.....at this stage.
I realised after i went to bed last night that ...(duh)....there is a massive time difference, and i was probably posting in the middle of most people's night.
Thankyou again for your help, i will try to borrow a camera tomorrow to get pics up, as i am still not sure of my diagnosis, however i read on a couple of other sites (not sure if i am allowed to name names on this forum) that there are several major symptoms of infection with microscopic parasitic dinoflagellates, specifically P. pillularis, that match the symptoms my fish display. This is described on one particular site as oodinium. The link below is to one of the articles where i found this info.

linkydink

Will keep you posted (and add pics), and would greatly appreciate further info/opinions as and when they occur to you.

edited to add- treated with a "broad spectrum medication" containing mafenide hydrochloride, aminacrine hydrochloride, malachite green.
According to -germ-'s research, i need a coppper based treatment which i cannot get until monday afternoon due to crummy work hours.
will keep you posted.

ps also just noticed that in my original post i used the wrong sign in the nitrate measurement. It should read "nitrate less than 20".
 
I've used copper with corys, as well as angel fry. It will kill snalis, and it does concentrate in algae, killing any algae eating fish. I've never had a problem with it affecting the bio filtration.
 
The reason i inquired about respiratory rate is the possibility of gill flukes/gill rot(rare!), i'm not sure if the mucal increase they respond with would result in the discolouration you have described, it should be grey...
Can anyone elaborate on this?
 
Thanks -germ-, the discolouration is on the skin behind the gills, and also some fish have a brown/black small spot on them, either on the side or at the base of the dorsal fin. this again ties in with the P. pillularis theory, although i am not 100% sure of what it is, the symptoms all match so closely.
the gill area that i can see on the inside of the fish is pink, and on the fish with the brown spot, it has progessed to red....this is now a hospital tank in crisis mode!
oddly enough, the girls are still birthing and eating happily, but i spend all my spare time (that i'm not spending here on the forum), watching them.....
thankyou again for your research, i will keep you posted on whether the copper seems to improve their situation.
 
Grrrrrrr..... have still been unable to track down any kind of copper based medication, having visited every lfs within about a million miles of my house. Am now looking at treating with acriflavine, methylene blue and malachite green (if i can't find any online that will deliver quickly enough). Bye bye nitrifying bacteria.....am adding additional filters to my other tanks so i will be ready at treatments end with a properly cycled filter.
so frustrating!!!

edited to add... looking at ordering Seachem Cupramine online. I know Seachem is a good brand, does anyone have experience with this product and it's level of toxicity to freshwater fish? It gives a level of 0.8mg/L as a safe threshold, and 0.6mg/L as the level that should not be exceeded during normal treatment. Should i get a copper test as well, or do you think i would be safe enough following the dosage directions? there is no copper in my tank now, nor has there ever been, so i shouldn't have a problem with residual copper increasing the dosage unexpectedly....
 
Just a quick update, I was never able to get ahold of a copper-based treatment, but for the last few days my fish have showed no symptoms, breathing is normal, behaviour normal, so i'm tentatively giving them a clean bill of health....for now. This was after a course of Wardley's promethyasul (sp?) and about 10 zillion water changes.
The fact that they responded to the promethy-whatever (active ingredients given in an earlier post), suggests that i was wrong in my diagnosis.....just as -germ- suspected!
Still, they seem fine now, so...cheering!
Thankyou to everyone who helped me with research and their experience, i appreciate it very much.
Just thought i'd post this to close the chapter on my panicky story!
Cheers all, merry.
 

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