Okay Huge Pile Of Questions - About To Dive In!

[tunagirll]

Hello, and apologies for a million silly questions as I attempt not to panic

I have finally purchased my betta and a few shrimp, some moss and fern and they all ought to be here within the week. I would really appreciate a little moral support and help. I'm not adverse to bribing people with chocolate

 
I currently have a 25l tank that's had some gravel substrate added and a nice piece of golden vine, and an anubia attached. I HAD several ferns but they melted and died as I forgot to tell my partner to turn the light on while I was away for two weeks. I had to clean the tank water, the debris is mostly gone now. The first three weeks I added a little fish flakes to help get some bacteria started (with the subsequent increase/decrease in stats)
 
Details:
25l tank, water in 6 weeks
Rainwater used out of the tap
pH 7.4, ammonia 0.5, nitrate and nitrite 0.
Set at 26 degrees C with a 55w heater
8W aquaone light
filter is a small aquaone 100 with some extra bio media added
 
Existing:
One piece of golden vine
small anubia
 
Incoming:
5 month old betta OHM
10 cherry shrimp
3 small windelov's java fern
flame moss (3 mat pads about 6x6cm)
fissidens fontanus (large mat pad, about 8x8cm)
 
I'm planning to add the moss mats and the fern, the betta and the shrimp and treat the tank as if it is uncycled, so lot of water changes. I have a spare heater so I should be able to do it without too much stress, hopefully.
 
So here are my questions:
 
Can I use CO2 tablets or should I go with something like flourish excel (or do I need both)
I also have a tub of yeast in the fridge I can use to make a DIY
I have some plant fert, do I need a trace mineral additive as well?
Is there an easy test for water hardness I can pick up?
 
Is putting all these things in together going to kill everything (including my sanity)?
 
If you have any answers, I'm over here, the one breathing into a brown paper bag.

 

[EllieJellyEllie]

First off, Im right with you, the other person dieing of and anxiety attack and hoping the tank she wants on Craigslist is still there Friday.

All the plants you have seem easy to care for and *might* not need any CO2 at all. Maybe a tablet here and there but Im not a plant expert so shmerr.

I have no idea.....

I think normal plant fertilser should be fine, but again, not a plant expert.

Water hardness...... umm...... What??

Anything fish like will kill your sanity but thats normal. Everything else looks fine IMO

 

[tunagirll]

Ellie, would you like to share my brown paper bag?

 

[Fishyworld]

First just to make sure, your ammonia should be 0 before you add your fish and shrimp.

 
Your plants are pretty low maintenance that said all plants benefit from added CO2. I would go with flourish excel rather then tablets but that’s a personal preference. I use the flourish excel in my tank every second or third day according to dosage amounts on the bottle.
All my plants which include Java fern, chainswords, penny wart and green rush are growing really well since I started using it.
 
I also dose with a plant fertilizer that contains trace elements like iron, magnesium, copper etc but I only do that occasionally I would recommend getting a fertilizer that does contain iron.
 
I'm not sure about the water hardness test kit as I haven't had the need to use one.

 

[tunagirll]

I will clean the tank and do a nice big water change before they go in Just trying to keep the bacteria fed in the meantime!
I've ordered the flourish excel and picked up some trace fert (already have normal plant fert). Hopefully it will all go smoooothly The betta I ordered is a stunner, don't want to risk killing him.

 

[Sophie]

Have you purchased the betta and shrimp already?
 
If there is ammonia reading in your tank, you haven't cycled it properly, if you add the fish and shrimp now, you will find yourself in a bit of a pickle with the high possibility of dying fish..

Why do you want to test the water hardness? You can purchase carbonate hardness and general hardness test kits but I really wouldn't worry unless your water is abysmal/keeping a speciality fish. Do you get limescale in your kettle etc? That'd be a good way of seeing whether it's.. Hard or soft, you need not know more than that really.

Also, not sure about using ferts with copper in, as copper kills shrimp (needs verification there).

With the trace minerals, I have only ever added those when using RO water. With tap water, there's no need?

Anubias doesn't need ferts at all tbh - it's a very hardy plant that can easily survive with low lighting, no ferts and no fuss. As long as you have no fish that will nibble on it, although it's quite rubbery so puts the majority of fish off of it. The betta will enjoy sleeping on it.

 

[tunagirll]

Thanks Sophie. I have ordered them, but they are not delivered yet. I have a few days before that happens.
Do you think having the tank planted will help control the ammonia enough to keep the fish comfortable while it cycles?
We have rainwater but we do get a little bit of scale in the kettle after about 6 months or so; seems relatively soft.
I also heard that copper kills shrimp, which makes me a little bit anxious about adding trace fert for the plants.
I read Anubia is as you said, slow and low maintenance - it's more the new plants coming in. I put the anubia in for betta naps
 
I guess the only other thing I could do is put the betta and shrimp in separate buckets and keep them until the tank cycles?

 

[Sophie]

The short answer - no, the plants will have next to minimal effect on the ammonia. With the fish in the tank while it cycles, you will need to be doing water changes to keep the ammonia as close to 0/0.25 as possible. It takes a long time to do it this way, much longer than cycling with pure ammonia with no fish but it is possible. Ammonia burns gills like a caustic acid causing great suffering to the fish. The next thing to worry about will be then cycling it through nitrite which basically stops the blood absorbing oxygen, suffocating the fish. Blunt but the truth. Having them in buckets will be worse as there is no filter and they will be sat in the ammonia that they produce just the same as in the tank.
Your best bet is to find mature media from somebody's tank that has already cycled and pop that in your filter - can help greatly with speeding things up for you.
If in doubt - cancel the fish order if possible.
We can help advise you through both methods, fish in cycle and a fishless.

Give this a read too - http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

 

[Ninjouzata]

If you can get a hold of Tetra Safe Start or Dr. Tims One & Only, that would speed things up a bit, at least that's what I've heard.
Not sure how readily available those are there though.

 

[tunagirll]

Thanks, have already read the cycle and understand it (I study chemistry at university) hence my anxiety

I actually hunted for an ammonia source with no luck to fishless cycle, hence using some fish food and leaving some of the rotted plants in after coming home from uni. I really appreciate you mentioning it though; if someone had told me about it back in my early days I am sure we would have a lot less dead fish!
 
I'll look up the head start stuff (though I realise it's not the same as cycling properly).

 

[Meeresstille]

Hello and welcome, Tunagirl!
Depending on where you live you could find out if there is an aquarium club where you might find someone willing to give you some of their filter media or at least some gunk of their mechanical filter. All they need to do is rinse the sponge in some tank water or dechlorinated water. You add that to your tank, letting the filter suck up all this bacteria rich stuff.
 
If you do find yourself having to do a fish-in cycling of your tank, try to keep the ammonia readings and later the nitrite readings as close to 0 as you can. So you need to prepare yourself having to do lots of water changes and lots of tests. Are you using the liquid test kit or the dip stick test sticks?
 
I think your pH is a good indication that you don't have to worry about your water hardness. My pH sits at 6.5 coming from the tap and I had to add crushed coral to my filter to keep my pH from crashing. Others may have the opposite problem with the pH sitting above 8...
 
Your plants will be fine with the occasional addition of Excel. Another important factor in keeping plants is lighting, but your plants are all good low level lighting plants, with the exception of the golden vine, I don't know about that one!
 
A word of caution regarding keeping the Betta in the same tank with the Shrimp. For some Bettas shrimp just may be another food source instead of tank mates, so you may have to watch out for that!
 
I hope you find yourself relaxing a little bit by now, and won't need that brown bag any longer, lol!

 

[tunagirll]

Thank you, Meeresstille, I really appreciate it! I know that there is a risk of the Betta attacking the shrimp, which is why I am keen to have the tank well planted with plenty of hidey holes for them and introducing them both into a fresh aquascape so that the betta is less likely to be territorial. I know it could still be a problem, and if it is I will just have to set up a second nano tank
 
My partner's dad is a professional koi breeder with very large outside tanks and those huge 44 gallon drum sand filter setups. Do you think this might be a suitable source of media?
 
I'm using the API master test kit.
 
Still needing the paperbag

 

[Meeresstille]

Don't know about the sand, sorry!

   Maybe if you add it to the tank as substrate? You want to avoid it near your filter since sand could damage it, so washing the sand out into your tank may not be the best thing for your filter!
 
The API test kit is super!

 

[tunagirll]

Don't know about the sand, sorry!

   Maybe if you add it to the tank as substrate? You want to avoid it near your filter since sand could damage it, so washing the sand out into your tank may not be the best thing for your filter!
 
The API test kit is super!

I'm going to go see him tomorrow, hopefully he has something for me

 
I ducked into the LFS to grab some shrimp food and somehow came home with a whole pile of plants. So I cleaned everything out and rescaped it with all the plants in.
I added some trace minerals and plant fert. Can't do anything about the flourish excel until it arrives, hopefully in a couple of days.