Oh My God Its Happened Again....

[Gelt]

Today for the 3rd time my Bolivian Rams have spawned again, this time the male is with the other female....they are spawning every 2 weeks at the moment. I have one male and two females- he swaps between the two !!

i never seem to get past the '3 day stage ' before the eggs get snuffled..today the bigger female has spawned about 200+ eggs with only 5 white dead ones.

so how can i improve the chances of getting fry?

1 - Move eggs to breeding net/trap on the stone?
2 - cross fingers and hope for the best?
3 - divide tank and hope for the best?
4 - monitor and move after three days to breeding net without mother?
please help me out.
some pictures- the stone is now totally covered at time of posting!

 

[Gytas]

i would prob go with 4

not sure

good luck anyways

 

[fluttermoth]

I'd let them get on with it themselves.

I remember reading (I can't remember where, so don't bother asking!) that fish need to be parented to be parents themsleves. If we take the eggs away, we're just bringing yet more fish who don't know how to look after a brood properly into the world, which is a sad thing.

I understand why you want to, but it's not like Bolivian rams are terribly endangered or anything, I just think it would be better to leave them alone; it may take them quite few tries to get the hang of it, but they probably will in the end

 

[mattlee]

fluttermouth is correct by saying that they will need a few practice attempts before they understand everything thats going on and how to care for the eggs properly.

if you have other fish in the tank except the rams then they will be a constant threat as no fish will pass on a mouth full of eggs. if you really want to breed and grow them on then its best to keep them in their own tank and let them get on with it or section/divide the tank so they have an area to themselves eliminating the threat of predators. also cover your filter intakes when the eggs eventually hatch as thefry will just get sucked up otherwise.

 

[FishFreak95]

I'd let them get on with it themselves.

I remember reading (I can't remember where, so don't bother asking!) that fish need to be parented to be parents themsleves. If we take the eggs away, we're just bringing yet more fish who don't know how to look after a brood properly into the world, which is a sad thing.

That is just some made up information. Its instinct. But It is a fact(at least for some cichlids) that the fry grow faster with the parents. Many CA ciclids, such as midas and convicts, secrete slime that the fry feed on and have all the nutrition the fry need. I dont know about German Rams.

 

[Gelt]

Well the update is that the eggs have swelled in size and I can see black dots inside , the female is doing a great job and even harassing the male when he is sometimes a bit late to take over so she can feed.
The funniest thing today when a ramshorn snail came to rest on a rock about 4 inches away from the eggs, the female went nuts and started hammering the snail trying to knock it off the rock. The male saw this and joined in! It was like two woodpeckers, she seemed to be getting stressed by it's presence, so I obliged and moved it to the other end of the tank . No more stress and she came right to the front glass looked at me fir about 10 secs and shot back to fanning the eggs.
Fingers crossed the more secluded area I made helps the whole fry process .

 

[Gelt]

Update, all of the eggs have disappeared ! . I now have wrigglers about 3 mm long , can't count them as they are that small however they are in a 2 inch deep pit created by the parents , there are quite a few in a tight group in the bottom of the pit about the size of a 5 pence piece. The only give away is their very thin tails and the wriggling.
I divided the tank today and the parents have now dug 3 more pits , no doubt the offspring will be in a different pit later.
Should I keep the male with the female or remove him as well?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Hey, congrats. Best wishes with that. I've never had breeders, so I can't comment, but I am very happy for you.

 

[holidayinn]

When I've had fry from my festae or RTM pair, I tend to keep them together as long as possible with the parents. There are no other fish in the tank, so no real danger of the fry being eaten in fear of their safety. I try to move the fry into a smaller tank, when I think the parents are losing interest in caring for them, also leaving it too long makes them very tricky to catch ime be it with a syphon or a net. HTH.

I think also its discus cichlids which secrete slime for their fry, not midas or convicts.

 

[Gelt]

Update - parents have moved them again to a different pit, the divided tank seems to be helping a lot keeping the rest of the community away.

i counted about 30 wrigglers, give or take a few as its very hard to spot them in the wriggling mass.

Any litter is always moved and the parents well away from the youngsters, also they clean the previous pit alternating the wrigglers between the pits.

i take it feeding will start proper once they become free-swimming.

later today a suttle water change to keep the nitrates down will be done, i have read that mortality is quite high if nitrate is above 10 for the wriggglers, i will do a careful vaccum using airline hose to remove some waste and set a gravity fed system to replace the water as so not to disrupt too much (nothing fancy just temp matched declorinated fresh water via airline from a container on step ladders next to the tank.) Last wc was 3 days ago and that was a large one at 50% , water stats are good with zero ammonia and NitrIte but now nudging around 20 on NitrAte. Temp is a constant 26 C +/- 0.1 degree, PH has always been stable at 7.2.

so here to keeping fingers crossed for free -swimmers soon.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Here is an excellent article on spawning them by Don Zilliox aka Zman. I had the good fortune to meet him and to be given the only pair of African cichlids I ever kept shortly before he retired from fish keeping.
Microgeophagus ramirezi