Nutrafin Cycle

[rfisher]

Hi All again,

I have just been told to put the Bottle of Nutrafin Cycle I have in the fridge, Why?

Regards,

Rich

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Hi All again,

I have just been told to put the Bottle of Nutrafin Cycle I have in the fridge, Why?

Regards,

Rich

i've heard that before, somethign to do with preserving the bacteria in it I think, not sure though I've never used it myself.

 

[OohFeeshy]

There are several threads about Cycle, general opinion being you're tonnes better off using a bottle of ammonia.

 

[MegTheFish]

Well, if there was actually live bacteria in there, it would have to be refrigerated 24/7 and never taken out of the fridge too long, and by the sounds of it you don't have it in the fridge So there's no point, if it was to even work.

 

[Xebadir]

Well, if there was actually live bacteria in there, it would have to be refrigerated 24/7 and never taken out of the fridge too long, and by the sounds of it you don't have it in the fridge tongue2.gif So there's no point, if it was to even work.

Strike one: Viruses have been found to live in DRY caves for millions of years only to reactivate when presented with a host: Bacteria have a similar track record: have existed for ~500million years, these guys have survived sub zero conditions(including "snowball" earth) as well as volcanic eruptions: these guys can live on volcanic vents(400 degree centrigrade on the ocean floor). Bacteria have a well developed dormant state where they can slow their metabolism until basically stopped, when food sources become sufficient(Oxygen and ammonia/nitrites in this case) they can begin reproducing(mytosis) and thus multiply until restrained by the food source. This is the principle: only in certain feeding live cultures(the old way) is refridgeration needed to slow the metabolism right down, molecular biology is at the point where we can with limiting of food sources force bacterial dormancy. Sorry to flame, but this is the truth.

 

[rfisher]

Well, if there was actually live bacteria in there, it would have to be refrigerated 24/7 and never taken out of the fridge too long, and by the sounds of it you don't have it in the fridge So there's no point, if it was to even work.

So Meg,

Are you saying that the stuff is rubbish and not worth bothering with?

Rich

 

[MegTheFish]

Well, if there was actually live bacteria in there, it would have to be refrigerated 24/7 and never taken out of the fridge too long, and by the sounds of it you don't have it in the fridge So there's no point, if it was to even work.

So Meg,

Are you saying that the stuff is rubbish and not worth bothering with?

Rich

Yes....NO....maybe....I DON'T KNOW!!!

 

[Majjie]

Strike one: Viruses have been found to live in DRY caves for millions of years only to reactivate when presented with a host: Bacteria have a similar track record: have existed for ~500million years, these guys have survived sub zero conditions(including "snowball" earth) as well as volcanic eruptions: these guys can live on volcanic vents(400 degree centrigrade on the ocean floor). Bacteria have a well developed dormant state where they can slow their metabolism until basically stopped, when food sources become sufficient(Oxygen and ammonia/nitrites in this case) they can begin reproducing(mytosis) and thus multiply until restrained by the food source. This is the principle: only in certain feeding live cultures(the old way) is refridgeration needed to slow the metabolism right down, molecular biology is at the point where we can with limiting of food sources force bacterial dormancy. Sorry to flame, but this is the truth.

Mmm .. it's a long time since I did my microbiology but viruses are in a completely different ball park to bacteria. They're on the dividing line between dead and alive and can be crystallised (though they're very much alive when inside the cells of other living things ).

Bacteria on the other hand are much more sensitive. Yes, some bacteria can survive in volcanic vents - but they are adapted to that temperature and would probably die if it cooled down. Some bacteria have a dormant stage - vast majority don't. And I don't see where molecular biology comes into it - I doubt if Nutrafin have gone to the trouble of producing genetically modified nitrifying bacteria to distribute to all us aquarists (Greenpeace would be up in arms )

The question here, surely, is whether nitrifying bacteria have a dormant stage? (Any experts out there?) Or whether and how long they would survive in a bottle. Most bacteria can be preserved at room temperature by freeze drying - so a dry preparation of viable bacteria is entirely feasible. In a liquid, the problem is to stop the bacteria growing, multiplying and starving to death - so bacterial metabolism needs to be inhibited - hence the refrigeration!

I know some people think cycling products are a waste of time because they've tried plating them out on bacterial growth media - and nothing has shown up. I think this could be because nitrifying bacteria are obligate autotrophs. i.e. they only eat ammonia or nitrite - can't use any other organic compounds (or what the rest of us call food). This characteristic of itself might be enough to preserve the bacteria in a liquid with no sources of ammonia or nitrite.

Anyway, IMHO - if you can't get hold of any filter material, substrate etc. from a cycled tank, which you know will have nitrifying bacteria in it - then a cycling product might help. What harm can it do?

 

[confusion]

I'll try to find the link, but on one of the fishy forums, someone had run an experiment using buckets of water with and without "cycle" added, and timed how long it took each to fishlessly cycle. IIRC, the cycle tank took about 2 weeks and the other took much longer.

 

[OohFeeshy]

A normal fishless cycle should take about 2 weeks. Even if it works, it is a complete waste of money when the same bacteria can come from the air, water, anywhere.

RE the bacterial growth plates, would it not be better to mix the agar with ammonia instead of normal bacteria nutrients?

 

[Majjie]

RE the bacterial growth plates, would it not be better to mix the agar with ammonia instead of normal bacteria nutrients?

Yes it would - but as I recall that wasn't what they did
You'd also have to have a control - to show that live nitrifying bacteria would indeed grow on whatever medium you used