Noob And Tannin

[Pennymom]

I started out like everyone else. Buy a tank, add water (I did know to dechlorinate it), add filter (charcoal), add plants (real or artificial, it didn't matter), wait for water to clear, add fish (1" per gallon). Cool and so wrong, I find out later. I did that with a 10 gallon aquarium and 8 neon tetras, 5 serpa tetras, a cory and two plectos. The two plectos are now gone after growing big enough to eat but not before they polluted the aquarium with gallons of urine and tons of poop, raising the ammonia (more on this later) to astronomical levels. If you remember, I just posted about fishless cycling of a 5-gallon aquarium for a future Betta after mine died. Fishless cycling was par with nuclear fusion in my knowledge base.

Anyway, what I have now is a 10 gallon aquarium with a carbonless filter. I still have the same tetras and the cory and a piece of mopani wood which was very heavy when I bought it, supposedly ready to put in the aquarium, but which I boiled and soaked for four days. On my many trips to my friend Google I discovered that tetras like tannin and I have found I like the look of tannin so I put it in the aquarium yesterday along with three bunches of plants, replacing the lovely plastic beauties I had had in there. The ammonia was off the charts yesterday so I did a 4-gallon water replacement in 2-gallon increments and today it is 4ppm which is still too high. Duh! The fish are colorful and eating. Nitrites were nearly 0. Nitrates were off the chart and I haven't had a chance to check them today since I have been gone all day and I was more interested in the ammonia.

Is this what is called a blackwater aquarium? I really like the look. And, second question, will my ammonia and nitrates finally settle down now that I have added the plants and replaced some of the water? I feel sorry for the fish but I honestly had no idea what I was doing to them and they don't seem to hate me.

 

[martyn21uk]

Your tank is going through the cycling process now. Without tracking your stats its difficult to know how much longer it will last for but as it stands your fish will suffer and you may lose a few along the way. Is there another cycled tank the fish can go into whilst you finish cycling your tank either with hardy fish or "fishless"?
Did a fish shop really sell you all of those fish in one go without asking and finding out whether you knew exactly what you were doing? If you do a fishless cycle you can fully stock from day one. If you use hardy fish you need to build your stock up gradually.
If you have no other tank or way of moving your fish out, make sure you do daily water changes to dilute your levels as they spike.

 

[Pennymom]

The fish have been in there for about 9 months and I haven't lost one. A fish store sold me the neons and a week later the other tetras. One plecto came later because of algae and the second came from another smaller tank when he outgrew it. The cory came somewhere between those two. I will do 2 to 3 gallon replacements daily until the chemistry settles down. One of the reasons for my post was to explain how little we know and are told by our dealers about water chemistry and how forums like this help, if we have the sense to look for them. Thanks for your reply.

I have nowhere else to put them so hopefully the water changes will help.

 

[rdd1952]

I don't understand why you have ammonia and nitrite present if you have had the tank running for 9 months. After about a month, those should have been gone for good. It also doesn't make sense that you would have high nitrates if the tank isn't cycling ammonia unless they're in your tap water.

The plants should definitely help. They will use ammonia, nitrite and nitrate so there aren't as much bacteria needed to process them.

The problem with the dealers that tell us things that are far from true is that most people don't have a true fish store near them. The are stuck with Petsmart, Petco and, God forbid, Walmart (I heard they were closing a lot of their fish departments...YAY!!!!). Unforunately, the people dishing out advise there usually don't know a whole lot more than the person they are giving it to. They have been working the housewares or dogfood section and get pulled over because someone else is out sick or quit. That's not true of all the chains stores but most of them. Even true fish stores give out some pretty bad advise sometimes too.

 

[Pennymom]

Here are a few possibilities for the problems in the tank, I think.

#1, too many fish. The plectos were 6 and 4 inches and we can just imagine the waste they put out.

#2, I never did a partial water change because I didn't know you should. Topped off, but never a change of 2 gallons or more.

#3, I replaced the filter every 4 to 6 weeks because it said to. If I got frugal and didn't replace it, I rinsed it under the tap.

#4, I had plastic or silk plants only.

All of the fish came from a true fish store, not a chain. I got no advice from them. The only advice I have gotten has been in the last ten days either from this forum or from hours on Google. Tomorrow I will test my tap water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. What little knowledge I have garnered in the past few days leads me to believe the four points I listed above play a large part in my problem which I have faith will resolve itself and hopefully the fish will survive since I am finally trying to make their world better. I have to go beyond the "water is clear and pretty, fish are swimming and eating, all is right with the world" mentality.

 

[rdd1952]

It sounds as if you have it figured out. The top offs could have been one of your biggest problem as it allows the impurities to build as only the wter evaporates and leaves everything else behind.

You actually did great to not lose any fish, especially with neons as they are not very hardy and definitely not a cycling fish. You mentioned the "all is well" mentality. Oddly enough, until about 10 years ago, that was the only way it was done. They never tested for ammonia, nitrite, etc. They didn't do fishless cycles. And they still kept fish. I think the lost more in the beginning that we do now with fishless cycling but the chemistry part of fishkeeping is relatively new. A lot of the older people who have had fish for 20, 30, 40+ years will still tell you all this chemistry stuff is a waste of time.

 

[martyn21uk]

As stated it sounds as though you are pretty much along the right lines.

#1, too many fish. The plectos were 6 and 4 inches and we can just imagine the waste they put out.

Work to a 1" per Gallon rule and you'll lways be okay stocking wise. The more you have in there, the more work there is for you with cleaning and water changes.

#2, I never did a partial water change because I didn't know you should. Topped off, but never a change of 2 gallons or more.

As you've probabably found out now through your research the good bacteria gets rid of Ammonia by turning it into Nitrite. Sadly Nitrite is still dangerous to your fish so then more good bacteria turns the Nitrite into Nitrate. Nitrate is only harmful when theres lots in there so all is good but the nitrate will build up over time so then the only way to get rid of the Nitrate is through water changes (plants will consume some of it) Through regular testing and trial and error of your tank you'll find out how often you need to do water changes.

#3, I replaced the filter every 4 to 6 weeks because it said to. If I got frugal and didn't replace it, I rinsed it under the tap.

What type of filter do you have? Are you repacing all parts of it? Are you washing all of it? If you have hula hoop typ nodes in there this is the home of all that good bacteria. The moment you wash it under the tap or replace it you wipe out all of the good bacteria and put it all back to square one. This may be whats happened and led me to believe you had a new tank as you will re-cycle every time you wash the good bacteria under a tap or replace it. Remember the filter companies want you to buy replacement media as often as possible!

#4, I had plastic or silk plants only.

This isn't really a problem, plants bring many beneficial things with them but they also had another part of the eco-system that you need to worry about. If you have a well established filter working well and do regular water changes and test your water you will get on fine with as many plastic plants as you want and not a single real one. As you are planted now thats fine, enjoy and don't take out cos of what i've said!! But just know that they will help but you aren't reliant on them.

I hope that all helps and doesn't sound too daunting! Just keep asking us all the questions you want and read the pinned topics at the top of each forum on this site, they are a great help. Also you can search the site for keywords if you have a question you don't want to ask. If you are thinking it though you can bet somebody has asked it before and its been discussed, just search to find it!

Good luck

 

[Pennymom]

Thank you, thank you! I tested our city water today: pH is 7.6, ammonia is 1ppm, nitrites are 0 and nitrates are 5ppm. We have well water but we are in such a drought right now that I'd be afraid of salt intrusion since we live right on the coast and I haven't done any tests on it anyway.

Did a 3-gallon water change today and the ammonia after that dropped from 4ppm to 2ppm. Earlier the nitrites were 0.5ppm and nitrates were on the high side of 80ppm and pH was 6.5. I didn't test them after the water change -- still more worried about the ammonia which seems to be dropping. I'll do another 3-gallon change tomorrow if that isn't too soon and I'll retest everything then. You asked about my filter. It uses those slide-in filters with blue fabric on one side and charcoal enclosed. I read somewhere on the web to remove that stuff, including the charcoal, and use rubber bands to wrap polyester fluff around it which I have done. I discarded the charcoal and put the actual filter material from the old filter back into the water of the filter just in case it had any good bacteria on it. If that wasn't a good idea, let me know and I'll take it out.

I have read and re-read all the pinned threads and have used the search option here on the forum repeatedly with excellent results. And, as you can tell, I'm not afraid to ask questions.

There is still ammonia in the 5-gallon betta tank which is being cycled minus the betta. Waiting for that 0 mark so I can continue with the rest of the cycling.

Thanks again. Ann

 

[rdd1952]

Once you get your tanks cycled, they will be able to handle all the ammonia the fish create but you will have to be careful with water changes since your well water has ammonia. I would definitely try to keep the WCs at 15% or less so that you don't overload raise the levels too much at once.

 

[martyn21uk]

Okay I'm now a bit confused about the water you are using. Am I right in thinking you have well water that you are worried about using becasue of salt from the sea, or tap water that has ammonia in it of 1ppm to start with? If this is the case then you are going to struggle because every water change you do you are introducing more ammonia into the tank. I've found this link that explains all of this quite good and gives suggestions of how to solve in the long term. But for now if your tank is between 2 and 4ppm and your tap water is 1pm then that is better to bring it down as low as you can. Doing another water change tomorrow is good, you could even do another tonight if my time difference brain leads me to think you did one this morning.

http/fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-tapwater.html

But for now I think you need to get your tank cycled and filter established as quickly as you can, so no more replacing of filter media. Having the carbon out is fine. you need as many places for the bacteria to grow as possible. In my filter I have hula hoop type nodules where they grow so if thats what your polyester fluff is for then thats good. For the bit you put back in, if it had dried out then the good bacteria would have died.

Keep testing your tank, good luck and feel free to keep asking!!

 

[Pennymom]

OK, I'll try to clear up the confusion using fewer words. My step-father, who was British BTW, said I tended to be "verbose".

#1, I am using city water. No well water. City water has ammonia of 1ppm (I just tested it again).
#2, I did not replace filter material. I added some but kept the old filter material minus the charcoal. It never dried out.
#3, Thank you for the very informative link.
#4, Today's tests:
Ammonia, 0
Nitrites, between 0 and 0.25
Nitrates, 60

I'll do a 2-gallon water replacement and test again in the morning. Tank looks good. Fish are giving me the thumbs-up.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[martyn21uk]

Fish are giving me the thumbs-up.

I'd really like to see that!!

Sounds like you're on track, good to see ammonia at 0, keep doing water changes to help bring your nitrates down, ideally you want them between 10 and 20, 60 is a little high.

Good luck and let us know how it goes...

 

[Jake Jackson]

I hear that tannins from woods are actually common, and the tint it gives the water tends to be more 'natural' to the fish. Afterall, I've never seen a crystal clear river. Just do some water changes and stay on top of things. I'm going through the same thing, after adding the same brand of wood to my setup, and my cichlids colors thrive in the tinted water.

I change about 30% of my 55gal every 3 days... As much as I like the colors on the fish, my girl doesn't like the color of the water... afterall, it is a piece of furniture.lol.

 

[rdd1952]

Personally, I like the slight tint tannins give the water but it's a matter of personal preference.

 

[Pennymom]

Personally, I like the slight tint tannins give the water but it's a matter of personal preference.

I like the look, too. It looks like the fish are in a river, not just a tank.
Update
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20
Tannins are minimal and make the tetras look gorgeous! I'm about to take a picture and post my tank, minus a few more plants. Thanks for all the help.