Nitrite Problem

[erk628]

Hello everyone, I have a problem. I have a 55 gallon freshwater tank that has been set up for almost two months. I started with gravel but last weekend I took my fish put them in a friends tank took all the water out with a gravel vac while I was doing this I cleaned the gravel good. Then I took all the gravel out but a very small layer covering the bottom, that way my plants roots had something to conncect to better. I then went out got some brown play sand and put in my tank about 2 inchs. I washed the sand good before I put it in there, which took forever then refiled my tank with water. I then put my fish and everything else in. I went out and bought some water clarifier made by Tetra Aqua and put that in the tank, because the sand made it cloudy. By morning it was clear. I did a water test that day which I have a freshwater master test kit. Everything was fine. Before I put the sand in a had two black tail sharks (catfish) which I only had for about a week one died that day before I put the sand in or before I did anything in the tank. Came home and he was floating. Anyways I noticed that the one catfish I did have had ich. That night after I put the sand in I went out and got another catfish to replace the one that died because I know they are school fish. Now the next day I went out and bought some ich medicine called Aquari-Sol I waited a day before I put it in letting why water temp to get to 85 degrees F I then took out my carbon pack and replaced it with a sponge. I put in the right amount of medicine. The next day I checked my water my ammonia and nitrite went from 0 to .50, I decided to wait another day to see if it would go down on its on becuse I didn't want to do a water change and dulte the medicine. The next day they were both up to 1, so I did a 50% water change. The next day my ammonia was down to .50 and nitrite was still 1. I did another water change this time 20% and decided to feed them everyother day. I checked my water again tonight and my ammonia is down to 0 but my nitrite is still 1. I'm going to do another 20% water change tonight. I have a few ideas why this happened one and the most likely is I switched from gravel to sand to soon, meaning my filters didn't have enough bacteria to take on the load alone without the gravels help. Two the medicine was the cause but thats unlikely. Three the gravel I left in at the bottom which I made sure was clean is causung the nitrite spike but again unlikely. Now my catfish still has ich but I'm not going to med the tank until I get this nitrite probelm solved. I can still see the ich so I know its not treateable until they fall off. I still have my tank at 85 trying to speed the ichs lifecycle up. I have added a power head which is pushing out air and a air stone to may sure theres enough oxegen in the tank. All my fish seem to be doing fine I just need to get rid of the nitrite. Does any one have any ideas. Should I get something to put in my filter, or should I just continue to do water changes daily and feed every other day and when I do feed feed sparingly until I get the nitrite back to 0.

 

[WILDER]

Never add new fish while you have desease and bad water quality, there no point as they won't make it, plus you don't know what the new fish are bringing with them without quarantining them first.
Smaller water changes or the cycle will take for ever.
Do you have another muture tank.

 

[Squid]

What was happening with the filter during the substrate change. How long did it go without an ammonia source.

It sounds like you are just having a mini-cycle. The ammonia munching bacteria colonises quicker than the nitrite munching crew. That would explain the ammonia going back down, but you being left with some nitrite still..

Keep up with regular water changes until all is well. Bit of a pain I know, especially during meds.. But.. a sick fish with nitrite too is more of a pain.

Good luck
Squid

 

[erk628]

Never add new fish while you have desease and bad water quality, there no point as they won't make it, plus you don't know what the new fish are bringing with them without quarantining them first.
Smaller water changes or the cycle will take for ever.
Do you have another muture tank.

Wilder, the reason that I added the new fish when I new my cat had ich was becuase the tank at the petstore were I get him I noticed a few of the fish in thee had ich also. Also the catfish I have gets very unhappy when he doesn't have a friend of his on kind. I didn't want to stress him any more hten need be so thats why I got another catfish. Also I only have one tanks as of right now so theres no way I can quaranting them first. You said smaller water changes right now I'm doing 20% everyday until Nitrite is 0, is this to much if so how much should I take out. Thanks for your fast reply.

 

[WILDER]

Ok, no 20% fine, just have to be patient i'm afraid.
Or get some biro spiral.

 

[erk628]

What was happening with the filter during the substrate change. How long did it go without an ammonia source.

It sounds like you are just having a mini-cycle. The ammonia munching bacteria colonises quicker than the nitrite munching crew. That would explain the ammonia going back down, but you being left with some nitrite still..

Keep up with regular water changes until all is well. Bit of a pain I know, especially during meds.. But.. a sick fish with nitrite too is more of a pain.

Good luck
Squid

Squid, while I was changing substantes both my filters were in the other tank running (my friends). Also would you recomend me going ahead and adding the meds now to start taking care of the ich, or should I wait until I get my nitrite problem taking care of.

 

[WILDER]

Need to add the meds fast whitespot can kill a fish fast as it soon destroys the gills.
http/www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

 

[Squid]

What was happening with the filter during the substrate change. How long did it go without an ammonia source.

It sounds like you are just having a mini-cycle. The ammonia munching bacteria colonises quicker than the nitrite munching crew. That would explain the ammonia going back down, but you being left with some nitrite still..

Keep up with regular water changes until all is well. Bit of a pain I know, especially during meds.. But.. a sick fish with nitrite too is more of a pain.

Good luck
Squid

Squid, while I was changing substantes both my filters were in the other tank running (my friends). Also would you recomend me going ahead and adding the meds now to start taking care of the ich, or should I wait until I get my nitrite problem taking care of.

Good news that the filter was in another tank.. It sounds like the substrate change in a non-mature tank has caused a slight hiccup. A mature tank has a bio-film which seems to form on all surfaces of the tank including substrate. So.. any that had formed on your substrate will now have been removed. I had all sorts of little blips like this when my tank was maturing. One little slip up or change and the stats would go off like yours. Very frustrating. few months down the line and a decent filter and my stats are rock solid. It just takes time.

With regards to the meds, i would wait for advice from someone with more experience than me. I think its dangerous for people without the experience to offer flippant advice without knowledge, that includes me.. sorry, best wait for further advice. my "guess" would be to continue with the treatment, but its just that.. a guess.

Good Luck
Squid

 

[erk628]

Ok, no 20% fine, just have to be patient i'm afraid.
Or get some biro spiral.

WOW Wilder that responds was very fast. What is biro spiral is it a media that I add to my filter. Also what does it do, I take it takes out nitrite, if so how long does it take and does it work. Also seeing how I know your on I'll ask you this question also. Should I go ahead and add the meds for ich now or should I wait until I get this nitrite probelm down. Thanks for your fast relpies

What was happening with the filter during the substrate change. How long did it go without an ammonia source.

It sounds like you are just having a mini-cycle. The ammonia munching bacteria colonises quicker than the nitrite munching crew. That would explain the ammonia going back down, but you being left with some nitrite still..

Keep up with regular water changes until all is well. Bit of a pain I know, especially during meds.. But.. a sick fish with nitrite too is more of a pain.

Good luck
Squid

Squid, while I was changing substantes both my filters were in the other tank running (my friends). Also would you recomend me going ahead and adding the meds now to start taking care of the ich, or should I wait until I get my nitrite problem taking care of.

Good news that the filter was in another tank.. It sounds like the substrate change in a non-mature tank has caused a slight hiccup. A mature tank has a bio-film which seems to form on all surfaces of the tank including substrate. So.. any that had formed on your substrate will now have been removed. I had all sorts of little blips like this when my tank was maturing. One little slip up or change and the stats would go off like yours. Very frustrating. few months down the line and a decent filter and my stats are rock solid. It just takes time.

With regards to the meds, i would wait for advice from someone with more experience than me. I think its dangerous for people without the experience to offer flippant advice without knowledge, that includes me.. sorry, best wait for further advice. my "guess" would be to continue with the treatment, but its just that.. a guess.

Good Luck
Squid

Thanks Squid you and Wilder have been a big help. Just read Wilders reponds, he said add the meds now so thats what I am going to do. Thanks again guys

 

[Squid]

It's Bio Spira. Bacteria in a bottle type product (not sure how it comes) that people use with new tanks to speed up or seed the bacteria. Never seen it here in the UK.. Its more of a US based product.

Good luck...

Squid

 

[WILDER]

Just off to bed.
Yes it's an american product make sure you can use it with fish in the tank.
http/marineland.com/products/mllabs/ML_biospira.asp
Maracide for ich.

Maracide
Controls Ich and other common parasites

 

[CFC]

I dont know where you were told redtailed sharks (Labeo bicolour) are schooling fish but they are 100% not, like all Labeo species they are highly territorial solitary fishes that will attack and kill fish of their own kind and even fish that look similar unless housed in enormous aquariums (i gather your tank isnt 300 gallons +). Also they are not catfish but Cyprinids with relations closer to goldfish than Siluriforms (catfshes).

As previously said your tank is experiencing a mini cycle due to the removal of a large ammount of the benefitial bacteria colony that would have formed in the gravel bed, in general it is not advised to make any major changes to a tank within the first 6 months of setting it up to allow it to mature undisturbed. Small daily water changes of around 10% are needed until the nitrite level is reduced to 0 once more.

 

[erk628]

I dont know where you were told redtailed sharks (Labeo bicolour) are schooling fish but they are 100% not, like all Labeo species they are highly territorial solitary fishes that will attack and kill fish of their own kind and even fish that look similar unless housed in enormous aquariums (i gather your tank isnt 300 gallons +). Also they are not catfish but Cyprinids with relations closer to goldfish than Siluriforms (catfshes).

As previously said your tank is experiencing a mini cycle due to the removal of a large ammount of the benefitial bacteria colony that would have formed in the gravel bed, in general it is not advised to make any major changes to a tank within the first 6 months of setting it up to allow it to mature undisturbed. Small daily water changes of around 10% are needed until the nitrite level is reduced to 0 once more.

CFC I think I worded it wrong when I said tailed. I ment to say (blak fined shark) (catfish) has whiskers look just like a channel catt hat you would catch when fishing. I do however have two red fined sharks one black and on albnio. Ans yes I have been told that that red finned (rainbow sharks) are not school fish. But I haven't had any problems with them as of yet. I keep a very close eye on them and they never fight. They usually swim and sleep toghter. I know that this may change once they get older but I will have another tank by then to move one to. Thanks for you expert advise CFC I have read a lot of your posts and you sure know what your talking about. Also I have seen some pics of your fish room very nice. Anyways sorry for the confusion. Also CFC you would suggest 10% water changes and not 20% to get the nitrite down. Also what do you think about the BIO-Spira that Wilder suggested, do you think it would be a good idea to try.

 

[CFC]

Bio spira should not be added to tanks that already contain fish so that would be a no no, the huge amount of live bacteria that would be suddenly forced upon the system is likely to use up a lot of the free oxygen in the water and suffocate the fish.
If you can get a handfull of a friends gravel from their tank and place it in the foot of an old stocking which you then tie up and place on top of your sand some of the bacteria will transfer and help speed things along.

The black finned catfish are Arius seemani, unfortunately these are brackish/marine fish that need heavily salted water to survive and will soon perish in freshwater. You either need to keep the in brackish water (see the brackish forum for more info on this) or return them to the store really. Its sad that shops will sell these fish to unsuspecting people without telling them that they are not freshwater fish.

Your nitrite isnt horrendously high so id stick to smaller water changes, large water changes are likely to just prolong the process at this stage so a 10% change once a day should suffice, however if the nitrite continues to rise and goes above 2ppm then an immediate 20% water change should be done to get the levels back into the safer zone.

 

[Squid]

Thanks for you expert advise CFC I have read a lot of your posts and you sure know what your talking about.

hehehe.. you don't think the bio-film info i mentioned above was all my work.. that was him too..! but hey, we all have to start somewhere.

Squid