Nitrite, My Worst Enemy

[Kernel]

Right I am pretty new to this fishkeeping malarky.
Basically bought a tank (30l), filled with water, dropped in some conditioner, cycle stuff and a shiney new carbon filter left for about a week, then added too many fish 10 to be precise, 5x Minnows, 4x Cardinals and a Plec. (I was given no advice about putting to many fish in at once by Pets at Home )

Now the cardinals have White Spot, which I am treating, the minnows are dropping off like flys and the plec is the most boring fish I have ever seen.

I have tested the water and the Nitrite was stupidly high, as in off the scale, it actually managed to get from 0 to 3.3mg/l+ in less then 2 days, I carried out a 50% water change straight away after consulting a LFS.
The Nitrite is still very high, and I am wondering if 4 day's with a 50% water change each day would be a good idea?
Or if there is any other way to get the nitrite to a more acceptable level quickly? Would the addition of a live plant or 2 help?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Puffdaddy]

The problem you are having is that your tank is not cycled yet. What are you using to treat the white spot? Doing water changes will delute the meds. not to mention the carbon it the filter will also remove the meds. Water changes is good to remove the ammonia and nitrites though. My suggestion would be to return any healthy fish you have left, especialy the pleco as it is most likely a "common pleco" and will get far to big for your tank. Stop treating the med and continue doing the water changes daily until the tank is completly cycled. As for the fish with "ick" give them salt baths in another container (large bowl about 1 gallon) with conditioning salt (not marine salt) then return to the tank. If you need help with the salt bath just ask I'll give you step by step instructions.

Edit: here is a link to all you need to know for salt baths and dips

 

[rdd1952]

As already mentioned, your tank is cycling. You didn't mention what your ammonia reading is so i assume you may be using a 5 in 1 strip which doesn't test ammonia. You also need to get an ammonia kit, preferable a liquid one as tthe strips are terribly inaccurate.

You should start doing 25 to 50 percent water changes up to 3 to 5 times a day until you have the ammonia and nitrite readings both down to about .25 ppm. You also need to treat for the ich which will be a little more difficult because you are doing so many water changes. One possible option would be to do one total water change and just reacclimate your fish to the clean water. Then you could add your ich tretment and not have to do another water change for a day or 2. Just keep a close check and do smaller 15 to 25 percent WCs as needed to keep the toxins as low as possible until the tank finally cycles.

Even after you are cycled, you will need a very good maintenance plan as you are overstocked (especially if the pleco is a common pleco) unless you have extra filtrtion. You will definitely need weekly water changes to keep the nitrates low.

 

[Kernel]

I understand that the tank is not yet fully cycled after reading a few things on the is site.
The Ammonia level is between 0.3-0.6 mg/L, I have got liquid test kits thankfully, I know from my job not to trust those test sticks.
Also since starting the meds the carbon filter has been removed, I have been treating with Interpet Anti White Spot plus.
The Nitrite level does seem to be dropping itself after the 50% water change yesterday, but not very fast.

 

[rdd1952]

Just keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrite levels. The ich is a direct result of the high levels so getting those as low as possible will help with the treatment too.

 

[Kernel]

Update:
Got rid of White Spot, I hope.
Lost 6 fish in total, all the Minnows and one Cardinal.
Nitrite is settling down nicely below 0.3mg/l, I now use RO water for my water changes.
But Ammonia it really high, as in between 2.4-3.7mg/l.

I even have the fish shop confused now

And ideas?

 

[rabbut]

Update:
Got rid of White Spot, I hope.
Lost 6 fish in total, all the Minnows and one Cardinal.
Nitrite is settling down nicely below 0.3mg/l, I now use RO water for my water changes.
But Ammonia it really high, as in between 2.4-3.7mg/l.

I even have the fish shop confused now

And ideas?

If you are using RO only, you need to be adding a mineral tonic to the RO prior to adding it to your tank. Not adding a mineral tonic will usualy result in large swings in pH. The tonic acts as a stabiliser. The ammonia is a little more puzzeling. Make sure you are not overfeeding, as this would be the most likely caurse. Failing that, Make sure you have not missed any bodies, and that you never leave a body in the tank for any longer than nessisary, as the produce large amounts of ammonia as they de-compose. Also, if the fish died from desease, allowing another fish to eat it could pass the disease organisums on the the fish eating them.

HTH
rabbut

 

[Kernel]

If you are using RO only, you need to be adding a mineral tonic to the RO prior to adding it to your tank. Not adding a mineral tonic will usualy result in large swings in pH. The tonic acts as a stabiliser. The ammonia is a little more puzzeling. Make sure you are not overfeeding, as this would be the most likely caurse. Failing that, Make sure you have not missed any bodies, and that you never leave a body in the tank for any longer than nessisary, as the produce large amounts of ammonia as they de-compose. Also, if the fish died from desease, allowing another fish to eat it could pass the disease organisums on the the fish eating them.

HTH
rabbut

I'm using the recommended amount of RO Rite with the RO water, and also have cut down on feeding as I did think myself that could be one of the causes.
There are no bodies left in the tank that I'm sure of, also all fish that I have removed have been pretty much all intact.

 

[rdd1952]

The ammonia is present because the tank still isn't cycled. The fact that the nitrite is dropping could be because ammonia isn't being processed to produce more. The medication you mentioned using says it doesn't harm the bacteria colony so I'm no certain why it hasn't started cycling by now or more like has stopped cycling unless the bacteria colony is indeed gone. Did you use any medication besides the Interpet Anti White Spot?

The only way to control the ammonia and nitrite until the tank cycles is with water changes. I would to a 50% water change ASAP to get the ammonia down some. Then do another 50% WC in about 4 hours to lower it more. From there you will need to go back to smaller 20 to 30 percent changes until you can get the levels under .25ppm and keep them there.

I know all those water changes is going to be expensive with RO water but it is the only way to lower the levels. Is there any particular reason you changed to RO water instead of tap water?

 

[rabbut]

The only way to control the ammonia and nitrite until the tank cycles is with water changes. I would to a 50% water change ASAP to get the ammonia down some. Then do another 50% WC in about 4 hours to lower it more. From there you will need to go back to smaller 20 to 30 percent changes until you can get the levels under .25ppm and keep them there.

I know all those water changes is going to be expensive with RO water but it is the only way to lower the levels. Is there any particular reason you changed to RO water instead of tap water?

Good davise from rdd1952. Water changes are the best way to reduce ammonia and nitrite. As rdd says, RO is expencive. If you do not have any sencitive fish in your tank that require RO, you may wish to consider changing back to tap water. There are no real benifits to using RO for most common tropicals, unless you have rediculessly high nitrAtes in your tap water supply. Even then, while your tank cycles, water changes will be going on once a day at least, thus nitrAte will not realy get a chance to raise much further. The only other time RO would be usefull, would be if your tap water supply has chloramines, rather than chlorine added as the dissinfectant. This is because there are no water conditioners can remove the dissinfectant without leaving ammonia. The last thing you want to be adding to a tank that is cycling fish-in, is ammonia. If your water is using chlorine, I would swich back to tap water, if it uses chloromine, the choise of whether or not to use RO, would depend on how much ammonia is produced after water conditioner is added. Also would depend on the leavles of ammonia in the tank prior to the change.
HTH
Rabbut

 

[Kernel]

I haven't used any other treatments, the only thing that has been added to the tank is some Gel Filter Inoculant, basically the bacteria I need in a gel form that I spread on my filter to establish my tank quicker.
The reason I am using RO water is because the tap water round this area is rubbish, pH too high and also quite hard, so RO is easier, also with a 30l tank it isn't really gonna break the bank

 

[rabbut]

I haven't used any other treatments, the only thing that has been added to the tank is some Gel Filter Inoculant, basically the bacteria I need in a gel form that I spread on my filter to establish my tank quicker.
The reason I am using RO water is because the tap water round this area is rubbish, pH too high and also quite hard, so RO is easier, also with a 30l tank it isn't really gonna break the bank

Fair enough. Lowering the pH and gH will often open up more possibilities for fish to keep.
Good Luck with the cycle, and enjoy keeping your fish
Rabbut

 

[Kernel]

Update:

Woohoo, Nitrite is 0

Oh bugger, Ammonia is off the scale, my tank is backwards.

Surely the Ammonia eating bacteria is meant to grow with in a few days, I can't quite fathom why it is so high with constent water changes and cleaning stuff in the tank (basically using gravel cleaner)

 

[rdd1952]

How may water changes and what size have you been doing? The fact that you have ammonia and no nitrite would indicate that the tank has totally uncycled itself. Before, when you had nitrite, at least the tank was processing ammonia. Now, with no nitrite and high ammonia, it sounds as if the bacteria aren't processing anything. What is your tank pH reading since starting with the RO water?

The only thing you can do is continue the water changes and feed lightly, once every 3 days. The fish won't be harmed by the lack of food and it will definitely cut down on the waste. I would tryto do at least a 75% water change as soon as possible to et the ammonia back on the chart so you know what it is. From there, keep them up until you can get it below .25ppm.

 

[Kernel]

Update again:

Nitrite - 0
Ammonia - 0
pH - 7

Finally I win, been stable for 5 days.