Nitrite And Nitrate!

[mike198469]

First Off...

Tank size: 60L
pH: Not A Clue (Sorry)
ammonia: Same As Above (Sorry)
nitrite: 1.4
nitrate: Off The Chart
kH: IDK
gH: IDK
tank temp: 78

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): White Spot (Definately)

Volume and Frequency of water changes: Lately, while med's for Whitespot in tank 0.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: Chemicals - Protozin (For Whitespot)

Tank inhabitants: 4 Guppies, 4 Plattys

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): Since the problem began, i have added some real plants.


Right, well, as im sure you can see i am having some problems with my 60L tank. Its been set up for about 5weeks now and a few days ago i noticed one of my guppies had ICK so i went to get some Med's for her. And picked up a Nitrite test kit just out of interest. (Never seen one before).

Did a test and it came back 1.4

Anyways, i had to add the ICK treatment and that course doesnt finish until Sunday night.

I read up on here last night, and in one of the threads it said to get some plants to help deal with the levels in the tank.

So i have.

But, i have also done a nitrAte test today and that came back off the charts. I didnt realise that NitrIte and nitrAte were in the tank at the same time.

Anyways, i dont want to loose my fish, and i have nowhere for them to go right now. So i am at a loss.

How can i reduce the NitrIte levels?

I am not as worried about the nitrAte because that should go down with the water changes after the meds have finished and the plants are in there now.

I also have a 30L Fry tank set up. And all the levels in there are fine and its been set up for about a month and had fry in there for about 3weeks. All thriving.

Also, in addition, i got a 125L tank on Wednesday. (Friday now) Put some Cycle and Aqua+ in there Wednesday night and some real plants in Thursday afternoon. Would it be a good idea to add something like 4neon tetras to help cycle the tank through? I need to do another dose of Cycle on Wednesday to complete the process apparently. But obviously i will need something in there to produce waste.

Please, please, help me.

Mike

(Also, i dont want to try Fishless cycling in the BIG 125L as i normally dont have any problems with big tanks or Fry set ups.)

 

[*Fishkies*]

How often do you perform water changes?
You could also try getting a product called Prime, however water changes are usually the best way to go with helping a tank cycle through.
Also to help clear the ICK in your tank, try raising the temperature if you haven't already.

 

[mike198469]

Prior to the ICK i was doing a 20% water change every 7days and using Aqua+ in it to get rid of Chlorine.

The ICK, i think, was introduced by a fish from my awful LFS because i noticed the spots on her about 17 hours after she went in the tank.

Obviously though it could be the nitrIte and nitrAte levels causing it.

So, any ideas how to sort the nitrIte out?

Mike

 

[-germ-]

How olds the tank?
I'd agree that prime (rules..) is the way i'd go if i couldn't perform water changes, check the link in my sig, but its only an addition to general good tank maintenance.... Should help short term if you are waiting for th end of medication.
Don't cycle fish in with the tetras, search under member name 'miss wiggles' and look at the fishless cycling link in her sig, perform one of these, it is blatantly unfair to perform a fish in cycle unless you can go that extra mile (research, money and effort wise).
IGNORE (sorry to raise my voice ) the instructions on the 'cycle' packet, looks like you haven't got a water tester, the only way you'll really know our tank is cycled is with a good liquid tester or the reverse (the tank isn't cycled) when fish start dying off.
That make any sense? My head isn't working properly....
Good luck...

 

[mike198469]

Tanks been set up for about 5 weeks now. And it was "cycled" with Cycle, lol. And the problem only really started in the last three/four days.

I have never had any problems with bigger tanks over 100L before, thats why im not as worried about the cycling. That can wait until my little tank 60L is sorted out.

I have a nitrIte tester and nitrAte tester kit. But, i dont go for all this add ammonia every day and then add less....and so on and so forth.

Honestly i have never needed to worry about it before as this is the first problem i have had.

Im honestly thinking about clearing out the small 60L tank and starting from scratch. But nobody wants the sick fish (obviously).

Mike

 

[rdd1952]

Sounds as if your tank isn't cycled and your fish have ich due to stress from high ammonia and nitrite. Ich organisms are always present in the tank and just need something to stress the fish to trigger it. Even if there isn't any ammonia present and you should definitely test it ASAP, the fact that you have nitrite present indicates that you don't have enough bacteria present to process all the nitrite. The fact that your nitrate is off the chart tells me that you either haven't done a water change in several weeks or you are severely overstocked. A tank with a normal fish load should be able to go 4 or 5 weeks before the nitrates go off the chart. You should do a water change as soon as possible to lower the nitrite, ammonia and nitrate. You can always redose the Ich treatment but the toxins are as big a problem as the ich. As long as they are in there, the fish will be stressed and the ich will quickly come back.

You say you just picked up a nitrite test kit out of interest. That was a very good idea and you should get an ammonia kit as soon as possible. Ammonia and nitrite are both toxic and if not kept at zero which they should always be in a properly cycled tank, they will kill your fish. You should also get a pH kit as the toxicity of ammonia increases as the pH increases.

As for the Cycle, throw it away. It is absolutely useless. IMO, it doesn't contain any nitrifying bacteria and does nothing to help cycle a tank. I (as well as many member here) have tried it and seen no benefit at all. You say that you don't normally have problems with large tanks or fry set-ups. How long have you had tanks? I am very surprised that you don't know how the nitrogen cycle works and that it is possible to have ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in the tank at the same time if the tank isn't fully cycled if you have had tanks for a long time. It is also possible that they are in your tap water. I would strongly advise you to do a fishless cycle on the new tank. Otherwise, you may well be back in the same situation again.

 

[mike198469]

Like i said, i do a partial water change of about 20% EVERY WEEK! And as im sure you can tell 4 guppies and 4 small plattys in a 60L tank is not overstocked.

I have had fish tanks since i was about 18, so, only four years. And as i stated i was never aware nitrIte and nitrAte were in the tank together because i have never had problems of any sort while keeping them.

I would like to say that i am fully aware of the way the nitrogen cycle works and i thought the tank was fully cycled which is why it came as a shock to me. Since i have never had any problems in four years ive never needed to worry about it. And as nitrIte is converted into nitrAte it came as a shock.

Also, i dont know why you accused me of overstocking or not changing the water because its written, up there, in my posts.

1st post in thread - 2nd line down. Size
1st post in thread - 15th line down. Stock.
3rd post in thread - Top line. Water Change Info.

Maybe next time you could read the posts and offer me the advice i need after taking all the relevant information into account? - I realise that the way that is written may cause offence, but i assure you that is not how it is intended. I am grateful for your help. But the problem clearly doesn't stem from what you suggested and any other ideas would be more than welcomed.

Thank you.

Mike

 

[rdd1952]

Like i said, i do a partial water change of about 20% EVERY WEEK! And as im sure you can tell 4 guppies and 4 small plattys in a 60L tank is not overstocked.

I have had fish tanks since i was about 18, so, only four years. And as i stated i was never aware nitrIte and nitrAte were in the tank together because i have never had problems of any sort while keeping them.

I would like to say that i am fully aware of the way the nitrogen cycle works and i thought the tank was fully cycled which is why it came as a shock to me. Since i have never had any problems in four years ive never needed to worry about it. And as nitrIte is converted into nitrAte it came as a shock.

Also, i dont know why you accused me of overstocking or not changing the water because its written, up there, in my posts.

1st post in thread - 2nd line down. Size
1st post in thread - 15th line down. Stock.
3rd post in thread - Top line. Water Change Info.

Maybe next time you could read the posts and offer me the advice i need after taking all the relevant information into account? - I realise that the way that is written may cause offence, but i assure you that is not how it is intended. I am grateful for your help. But the problem clearly doesn't stem from what you suggested and any other ideas would be more than welcomed.

Thank you.

Mike

First, I will apologize if my post came across wrong. If you read my signature, I always make the assumption that people are new to the hobby especially if they are new to the forum. Since you said weren't aware that you could have nitrite and nitrate in the tank at the same time, then I could only assume that you didn't understand the nitrogen cycle. You can actually have ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in the tank at the same time in a cycling tank which I think yours is.

Second, I did read you thread about stock and water changes. The way I stated what I did didn't actually come across as I meant it to. Basically, there are only two ways for nitrate to get high. One is obviously overstocking. More fish means more ammonia-nitrite-nitrate. With a very heavy fish load in a fully cycled tank, the nitrate can build quickly. Even at that though, it takes a while for the nitrate to get high enough to go off the chart.

The other way is the lack of water changes. I'm sure your tank has been cycling some and that is where the high nitrate came from. But if you were doing 20% water changes each week with only the 8 fish in the tank, nitrate should have never gotten more than 10 to 20 ppm higher than the tap water in a weeks time. So even if you had high nitrates in you tap water, it would take 2 or 4 weeks of no water changes for the nitrate to get to 100ppm or higher. Test your tap water for nitrates to see what you are working with. A lot of people in the UK have 40 ppm in their tap water.

I guess there is one more way for nitrates to get high and that is overfeeding. Excess food decays and creates ammonia just like fish waste. So if you're feeding too much, that would also create a problem. It basically would be producing waste as if there were more than the 8 fish in the tank almost as if the tank was overstocked.

The last thing that could have caused the nitrites and ammonia (if it is present) is that some medications will wipe out the bacteria colony. If the one you used is one of them, then your tank has absolutely no nitrifying bacteria at all left you you will definitely need an ammonia test kit.

Bottom like is that to solve your current problem, you need to do water changes to get the nitrite down below .25 ppm and the nitrate back to at lest 40ppm or lower. And as I mentioned, get an ammonia kit. If the bacteria colony is gone, you also have ammonia which needs to als be kept below .25ppm until the tank can cycle again.

Edit: I did just see one thing I missed in your original post and apparently everyone else did too as it hasn't been mentioned. If you do cycle the new tank with fish, don't use neons. They aren't very hardy and need an established tank. Even a small amount of ammonia and nitrite will wipe them out. Danios and red-eye tetras are two of the hardiest tropicals I can think of. But once again, I'm a big advocate of cycling without fish.

 

[mike198469]

So, you suggest i simply do water changes every day??? How much?? And what about the med's for the ich?

Mike

 

[rdd1952]

I would do one large water change at first just to get the nitrite and nitrate down. If you did a 50% change, you could simply add a half dose of medication to get the level back to where it should be. After that, I would do 20 to 25 percent a day to keep the nitrite as low as possible. I think the main thing is just to get them downunder .25ppm. At least then, your fish will only be fighting the ich and not nitrite and possibly ammonia poisoning too.

Edit: You should get more responses from the UK crowd tomorrow. Not many of them on right now. Being in the UK, you're either up very early or very late.

 

[mike198469]

Its 04:35. I have a sleeping condition. Been up for about 49 hours now. (Believe it or not, thats nothing)

So, how long after the 50% w/change should i test again? And how long until the lvl goes down? Also, what do i do about amonia poisoning if applicable.

Mike

 

[d3tained]

Hi.

Do 25% water changes every second day for 4 weeks and you will be fine.

 

[rdd1952]

You can retest the water about 10 minutes afer you finish the water change. It should be well mixed by then. The time it takes the nitrite to finally go back to zero depends on how close to fully cycled the tank is. I looked up the medication you are using and it says that it does not harm the bacteria colony so it doesn't sound like the medication is an issue with the bacteria. As for ammonia poisoning, I am relatively unknowledgeable about diseases as my tanks have been disease free since I set them up but I think the only thing you can really do is lower the ammonia level. Once the ammonia is gone, they should be fine although prolonged exposure can have long term effects and shorten their life span.

 

[mike198469]

How do i lower the level? With w/changes?

Mike

 

[Christine1014]

Yep, water changes with lower the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels by diluting them.
One thing that wasn't mentioned above - you said about doing your regular water changes -- do you gravel vac at that time as well? I just ask because the cause of high nitrates is often dirty gravel, and you do water changes all day but if there's still junk in the gravel, you're still going to have a nitrate problem.