Nitrates And Other Questions

[Pidgecbr600rr]

I went to the LFS yesterday and there was a few points they raised about my 4 week old setup

1. I should only leave the lights in the tank on 4-5hrs per day
2. I shouldnt have done a water change within 6 weeks (fish cycling) as this can disrupt the process
3. I should only feed the fish every other day (instead of 2x per day)

Ok now my reasons for a water change (i have done 3 now starting 2 weeks after starting tank) were highish nitrates

I am a little confused as there seems to be lots of opinions about how things should be done, and i really dont know what is right and wrong, i'd like to believe the shop as they genuenly seem knowledgable and helpful, but not changing the water and feeding every other day feels a little extreme and not so good for the fish

My first concern is that my Nitrates are highish again and i did approx 20% water change 2 days ago, my nitrites and ammonia are 0 though

1. Is there a way to naturally lower nitrates?
2. Could the higher feeding cause the end result of higher nitrates?

My second is, i had 2x plants in the tank which whilst growing up towards the light also started to shed alot of leaves (very messy in tank), and had alot of brown leaves towards the bottom, and also had these nasty stalks appear which grew down towards the gravel, i have taken out the plants now but....

1. I thought plants liked nitrates so why were the leaves dying off yet they still grew?
2. I read plants require alot of light so how can 4-5 hrs be enough?
3. Should i try putting more plants in or just stick to artificial


Sorry there are alot of questions but i'm very confused now

Thanks

Paul

 

[dthoffsett]

Ok, I'll see what I can do to help you out.

1. I should only leave the lights in the tank on 4-5hrs per day
I don't keep plants myself, but I would think they'd need more light than only 4-5 hours. However, if you have only fish, how long the light on doesn't matter, in fact, if you have a well lit room, the light is really just there for you to see the fish better. The only reason I can think of to reduce the amount of time you have the lights on in a fish only setting, is to reduce the amount of algae in the tank. If you don't mind the algae, leave them on as long as you like. I myself leave mine on for 10 to 12 hours since I have 2 jobs.

2. I shouldnt have done a water change within 6 weeks (fish cycling) as this can disrupt the process
That is a load of bunk. Any time you have fish in a tank, you should do at least weekly water changes, sometimes more if you are cycling. At the beginning of the cycle, you don't have enough beneficial bacteria to break down the ammonia and nitrite, therefore if you followed the LFS's advice, your fish would most likely die of ammonia poisoning long before it properly cycled. While cycling, you should be checking your water stats (ammonia and nitrite) frequently (I did daily), and if the ammonia goes higher than .25 you should do a water change (again, I did daily in the beginning). As for nitrate, there seems to be a bit of disagreement as to what the maximum level should be, some say 20, others 40. I myself try to stay around 20ppm. The only thing that will lower nitrate is reqular water changes. 15 to 25 percent weekly.

3. I should only feed the fish every other day (instead of 2x per day)
This really depends on the fish, some types, such as your large carnivores only eat every couple of days, others, especially fry and young juveniles ideally should be fed 2 to 3 times a day. Your average fish owner, even old pros tend to over feed. Fish in the wild can easily go a week between meals, so unless you never feed then, they shouldn't starve. However if you want to feed them 2x a day, go for it, just make sure they eat everything you put in in 1-2 minutes, if not feed less. It's also a good idea to fast them 1 day a week, to allow their intestines to clear and avoid constipation (more common in herbivores).

Hope this helps some, you might try the plant section for more help.

 

[SkiFletch]

Well, to answer your questions:

1. Shedding leaves is somewhat common for plants when they are re-homed. Its a stress related reactoin to being moved. Although sometimes there can be other factors at work in shedding lots of leaves/stalks/whatever

2. Plants require 10-12 hours of light to survive and this may have led to the shedding behaviour you were having. If you're starting out with probably lower lighting (I'd guess you've got 1-2 watts per gallon) then you'll want to go with hardier species like Anubias, Java Fern/moss, and perhaps some Hygro. As a general rule of thumb, the darker green the leaves are and the bigger they are, the hardier the plant.

3. I'd put in some hardier species. They'll control your nitrates without requiring frequent water changes and even help buffer any ammonia spikes a little in case of an untimely fish death you dont notice. Also, they look much better IMO.


As far as what your LFS said about cycling, smaller water changes doesnt disrupt the process, especially when cycling WITH fish. You WANT to do water changes to keep the toxin levels down and the stress off them

 

[blue_ram]

I went to the LFS yesterday and there was a few points they raised about my 4 week old setup

1. I should only leave the lights in the tank on 4-5hrs per day

Not if you have plants. They need about 8-10 hours day. Depending on the species, you may need 2watts + per gallon of water.

2. I shouldnt have done a water change within 6 weeks (fish cycling) as this can disrupt the process

As long as you don't change half the water, you don't have to worry about it. You should never change that much water, unless there's a major disaster.

3. I should only feed the fish every other day (instead of 2x per day)

You can feed them up to 3x per day. Only thing matter is the total amount of food they get. That being said, I do feed my fish only every other day during school days.

Ok now my reasons for a water change (i have done 3 now starting 2 weeks after starting tank) were highish nitrates

I am a little confused as there seems to be lots of opinions about how things should be done, and i really dont know what is right and wrong, i'd like to believe the shop as they genuenly seem knowledgable and helpful, but not changing the water and feeding every other day feels a little extreme and not so good for the fish

My first concern is that my Nitrates are highish again and i did approx 20% water change 2 days ago, my nitrites and ammonia are 0 though

How high is high? 40mg/L+?

1. Is there a way to naturally lower nitrates?

Water change.

2. Could the higher feeding cause the end result of higher nitrates?

Yes, feed them only what they can consume in about 4 min (total). If you feed them twice a day, then feed them only what they can consume in 2 minutes.

My second is, i had 2x plants in the tank which whilst growing up towards the light also started to shed alot of leaves (very messy in tank), and had alot of brown leaves towards the bottom, and also had these nasty stalks appear which grew down towards the gravel, i have taken out the plants now but....

1. I thought plants liked nitrates so why were the leaves dying off yet they still grew?

They are losing leaves which aren't getting enough light. This is a typical symptoms of plants that aren't getting enough light.

2. I read plants require alot of light so how can 4-5 hrs be enough?

See above.

3. Should i try putting more plants in or just stick to artificial

Since you're a beginner, stick with artificial plants. There are some beginner plants, but even they are highly susceptible to algae out breaks. Besides, fish don't seem to care either way; at least the ones that don't eat plants.

Sorry there are alot of questions but i'm very confused now

It's OK, it's normal for a beginner to be confused. BTW, you'll hear quite a conflicting opinions on what's "best". Everyone's opinions are based on their experience. If it works well for them, they'll assume it will work for everyone. But fish are pretty adaptable, so they'll do well in most circumstances. So in effect, everyone's right! There's only 3 rules you need to follow:

1) don't overcrowd
2) don't overfeed
3) change water (20%) at least every other week

Live plants in the aquarium, unfortunately, requires some balancing act. Once you have couple of years of keeping fish, you can explore the possibility of live plants. But for now, stick with the artificial stuff.

 

[freddyk]

1. There is no should about it, every tank is different. 4-5 hours is fine. so is 8 or 10. Planted tanks need much more light then that, while with unplanted tanks ambient room lighting is enough. Just experiment a bit, there is no right answer to this one and I'd say anything from 4 to 14 hours could be a legitemate answer.

2. Doing water changes doesn't disrupt the cycle, it just might slow it down a bit due to the removal of ammonia and nitrite directly from the water. In a fishless cycle water changes are pointless, but when cycling with fish water changes are a must - much better to slow down the cycle and keep the fish healthy, then speed up the cycle and expose the fish to high levels of toxins.

3. It depends on the fish. For the average adult community fish every other day is a reasonable amount. Young, growing fish should generally be fed more often. Typical aquarium fish pick at food as they find it in the wild, and while you can feed them too much, you can't really feed them too often. The more often you want to feed them, the less you give them at each meal. You can feed them 10 times a day if that's your desire, as long as it's just a nibble each time.

As far as plants go, as mentioned they do need more light, and to give the lfs the benefit of the doubt I can only assume he was assuming no live plants with the intention of preventing algae growth in your tank, since there's no other reason to limit lighting to only 4 hours. Plants are more complicated then just nitrates - there are many nutrients they use from the water, and different plants require different lighting, and often different water parameters. They are a whole area of aquaria on there own and worth learning about if you like planted aquaria. Still, there are some 'set it and forget it' species of plants you can go with - just get some recommendations first so you don't waste money on those that are harder to keep.

For nitrates there is no reason why your water changes wouldn't keep up with them unless your tap water has very high nitrates already.

 

[Pidgecbr600rr]

Thanks for the replies, they have been very helpful, i have picked up an understanding of the way things work, and like everything its certainly a learning curve, its nice to know i can get advice and opinions on here though

Thanks

Paul