Newbie!

[F!sh!es]

Hello everyone, my name is Jill and I'm new here. After reading through some of these posts, it seems a lot of you are from the UK, which is great because I can read your posts to myself with an accent hehe. Well here's my story...

My husband acquired a 120 gallon fish tank from a friend he works with at his landscaping business. He had no room for it so we got it for free, along with the stand, hood/lights, filter, some ornaments. Good deal, right? So now a few months later, I have slowly stocked my tank with lots of lovely fishies and I can't stop watching them... I may need more tanks...

So I have the Rena Filstar xP3 filter and some plants that my husband's uncle gave me a couple of days ago. As for the fish in my tank, here's my list. I hope I don't have too many, I know some of them do get big. So please don't be hard on me if I did something bad. 50 fish total in 120 gallon tank:

3 Clown Loaches
1 Albino Pleco
1 Angelicus Botia
2 Dwarf Gouramis
9 Neon Tetras
3 Glo-Light Tetras
5 Blank Neon Tetras
2 Dalmatian Lyretail Mollies
3 Gold Twinbar Platys
4 Sunburst Wag Platys
2 Red Wag Platys
3 White Clouds
4 Red Phantom Tetras
1 Rainbow Shark
1 Red-Tailed Shark (Yeah, you read that right... my husband brought it home and I pretty much screamed at him for adding him when we already had a rainbow... I think it's going to be taken back to the store soon... we shall see)
3 Blue Mickey Mouse Platys
3 Denison's Barb

I worked at PetSmart a few years back for about a year (I know, I know lol) so I at least had some knowledge of the hobby going into it. I am learning more and more every day so I am open to any advice (friendly, please ) you are willing to give.

 

[LucyB]

Sounds Lovely! What an amazing deal, Lucky! Could you post some pictures that would be great, I want to see it!

 

[F!sh!es]

Sounds Lovely! What an amazing deal, Lucky! Could you post some pictures that would be great, I want to see it!

I apologize for the poor quality. Taken from my phone, as my hubby has taken the camera to take pictures of deer lol. I also read a lot of people's dislikes about aquariums and I must say, the pirate skull and the pink castle were from my kids. They were each allowed to pick one ornament and I must say, they are the albino pleco's favorites! I just recently added the live plants so once they grow a bit I'll remove the fake plants. I'll add more pictures at another time when I have my camera back.

 

[KittyKat]

What are the dimensions? The sharks *may* be ok (although unlikely) if you add more decor and the tank footprint is big enough.

The biggest problem I see with your stocklist is that you don't know which species are schooling and which are not, so please read about why schooling species should be kept in large groups, then get those numbers up: http/aquariumadventure.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/deciding-on-fish-numbers/

…and read about why water types matter to fish and why they don't (as you're mixing soft and hard water fish): http/aquariumadventure.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/importance-of-acclimatisation/

 

[KittyKat]

p.s. is the filter fully cycled, fish less or fish-in sort of cycled?

p.p.s. here's are a couple of hints: loaches, tetras, barbs and minnows are schooling fish; clown loaches and common plecos grow very large, believe the larger numbers you see; plecos require wood (bog or freshwater drift wood are best) to eat, for good health, and caves for confidence

 

[colleen0309]

Looks lovely! As stated above, the tetras really need bigger schools. Other than that, it looks good.

 

[F!sh!es]

The dimensions are 60x18x24. I did a fishless cycle and then the tank did a small cycle once I added some fish and its now cycled completely. I'm aware of the tetras, barbs, and loaches being schooling fish and actually the white clouds, Flo lights, and black neons school together a bit which is really neat to see. I originally started out with one clown loach but read up more on them and just added the extra two recently. They swim and lay together a lot, but the original one keeps to itself a little more than the others. I guess what confuses me is how large should each school be? Most pet stores say at least 3-5 to start which was what I had hoped to do and then add more to grow the size, but I'm unsure if I can safely add any more fish to the tank without overstocking. The denisons barbs were also just added and I hoped to get more.

I also thought that I had picked fish with the same hardness requirements but I'll have to make up a chart to figure out what I did wrong (unless you can tell me quickly so I can keep an eye on them) I do have soft water, neutral but slightly acidic pH.

The wood for the pleco was news to me as well, I'll have to get something for it. There are holes within each ornament for hiding places also, but I am considering getting another type of cave as well.

 

[KittyKat]

In the long run, that tank may be too small for the clown loaches and the pleco as clown loaches will reach 16" and some species of common pleco will reach 24".

I consider that schooling fish should never be kept in any number under 6, and 10-15 is an ideal minimum. For my reasoning, see the link I posted earlier. The only exception I have ever heard of is Denison's barb, which apparently become aggressive once their numbers rise into the 30s or so, so it may be best to keep those at 10 for the long term. The other schooling species would benefit from the highest numbers that you can give them.

As a general rule of thumb, tetras are soft-water; grouramis, barbs and loaches are around neutral; livebearers are hard-water. While most soft-water fish can do well in hard water, that is NOT the case the other way around, especially for most livebearers (some species are an exception to the general rule, but they're not the common ones). Again, for reasoning and a warning about consequences, see the other link I posted earlier.

The only problem I can foresee with dedicated caves is that you'd need to start small and work your way up, which means upgrading caves with time. I always have found that the plecos really do benefit from them!

Also, what about temperature? From what I have seen, the minnows do best in cool water (18-20 C), unlike most of the rest of your bunch…

 

[F!sh!es]

Sorry I hadn't had a chance to read the first link about the schools because it wouldn't work on my phone. I understand the need for the larger school, but I am worried that now I may have run out of room to get them all the numbers they need. Those dimensions were for inches, I apologize. Do you think I would be able to get my tetras each up to a school of 10 safely? ie. the glo-lights, black neons, red phantom tetras, or would that be overkill for the tank? And if so, would I need to get a stronger filter or add another?

The temperature runs around 76-80 F normally (as it cools off more within this month I will add a heater for them). The white clouds don't seem to mind the temperature in the least bit. Which reminds me about my question for a heater, I hadn't found one made specifically for 120gallons or even close... do I need to get two heaters, one for each side that adds up to the amount needed?

 

[KittyKat]

What are the dimensions of the tank and what sort of filter do you have on it? I doubt you can get *all* of those schools up to good numbers as I see 8 schooling species in your tank (2* loaches, 4* tetras, 1* minnows and 1* barbs) of which only 1 (neons) are already in a good group. What are your nitrate reading?

I would start by getting each of those species up to 6 fish per species and then see how the tank "feels" from there. Do consider reducing the number of species. Investigate live plants as well, they would allow a larger stocking as plants use ammonium and nitrate, amongst other things.

I would consider 78 F (25 C) too high for the minnows in the long term, but they will survive in that. Higher temperatures cause faster metabolism rates which impact live span and activity levels, amongst other factors. I think all of your fish should be better at 22 C (71.5 F) for the winter: it is natural for water temperature to vary throughout the year, so it is safe to set the heaters to 22 C and let it rise naturally in the summer. These sort of changes can be problematic in small tanks as they can be rapid, but larger tanks, like yours, retain heat well, so you would never get dangerously rapid temperature fluctuations. Heater wise, for tanks which are 4 ft long or over, I consider 2 heaters compulsory (if in tank heaters are used) so that the water is heated more evenly. I use approximately 1 W of heater per litre of water, so for your tank (120 US gallons -> 450 litres), I would recommend 2* 250 W in-tank heaters. I have had very good experiences with Visitherm glass heaters and NeWatt ceramic heaters.

 

[F!sh!es]

The dimensions are 60" long, 18" wide and 24" high. I also do have live plants that I just added a few days ago. I'm not sure which kind they are yet, but I have 3 of 3 different types, so 9 total. The filter is a Rena Filstar xP3.

 

[KittyKat]

Note: I've stuck the stock lists into spoilers so they don't take up so much space.

It is still a bit difficult to guess,

Spoiler

* 3 -> 6 clown loaches
* 1 common(?) pleco
* 1 -> 6 Botia kubotai
* 2 dwarf gouramis (sex?)
* 9 neon tetras
* 3 -> 6 glo-light tetras
* 5 -> 6 blank neon tetras
* 2 mollies
* 12 platys
* 3 -> 6 white cloud mountain minnows
* 4 -> 6 red phantom tetras
* 1 rainbow shark
* 1 red-tailed shark
* 3 -> 6 Denison's barb

So that's ideally 18 more fish to get the schools up to what I would consider to be "minimum" and you already have 50 fish. The tank is about 400 litres in volume (I find it easier to work in litres) and I have a very similar tank in size, which I do have more fish than that in, but most of my fish are much smaller and my tank is moderately planted. My filter is slightly smaller, with lower flow, but probably has more media surface area (I use almost exclusively "bio media"). So, I probably would feel comfortable increasing the stock, but I would also have enough plants that I could not count individual ones.

Still, I would so something slightly different: I would take the mollies, minnows, one of the sharks, common(?) pleco, two of the tetra species and the clown loached back to the LFS, then increase the existing species so the stocking to be this:

Spoiler

* 10 Botia kubotai
* 1m 2-4f dwarf gouramis
* 20 neon tetras/glo-light tetras/blank neon tetras/red phantom tetras
* 20 neon tetras/glo-light tetras/blank neon tetras/red phantom tetras
* 10 Denison's barb
* 12 platys
* 1 shark

…but I don't think that's what you want, so for your existing tank, the following would be a long term option:

Spoiler

* 8 Botia kubotai
* 2 dwarf gouramis (sex?)
* 10 neon tetras
* 10 glo-light tetras
* 10 blank neon tetras
* 10 red phantom tetras
* 6-8 Denison's barb
* 12 platys
* 1 shark

…or if I wanted to keep the clown loaches and the pleco, I would upgrade to a 6*2*2 ft tank as soon as possible and then go for the following as the long term stock:

Spoiler

* 6-10 clown loaches
* 10 Botia kubotai
* 1 common(?) pleco
* 2 dwarf gouramis (sex?)
* 15 neon tetras
* 15 glo-light tetras
* 15 blank neon tetras
* 15 red phantom tetras
* 10 Denison's barb
[* 15 white cloud mountain minnows - although I honestly can't recommend these fish]
* 2 mollies
* 12 platys
* 1 rainbow shark
* 1 red-tailed shark

…because a 650 litre tank would be more than half again the volume of your current one, it would allow higher stocking.

 

[F!sh!es]

Thank you so much for giving me the time to figure all of that out and to be nice about it all.

I didn't realize I would need so many of the Boris, just one cost me almost $20 USD! Well I could have gone with a saltwater tank to begin with and then I'd really be complaining about the prices so I won't complain lol.

Well upgrading to a bigger tank is out of the question, but I do like some of your suggestions. I am ok with getting rid of the minnows and actually 2 of the platys died recently (actually another also but I replaced that one). I really think they are being eaten, but I can't figure out which fish is doing it. I think its the denisons barbs personally, though everything I read says they are peaceful, they seem nippy at times. I am even ok with getting rid of the barbs as well (since I was looking to buy rummy nose tetras, but the store didn't have any and I wasn't really sure of their name at the time)

I was also considering bringing back 2 of the clown loaches (I just got the other 2 recently, but my first seemed happier without its friends)

I was already ok with getting rid of the red tailed shark, too, since the sharks fight a bit during feeding.

The pleco is an albino and (supposedly) doesn't get as large as the regular common pleco. As for the gouramis, I'll have to look up to see their sexes because I'm unsure at the moment.

 

[KittyKat]

I didn't realize I would need so many of the Boris, just one cost me almost $20 USD!

…Boris?

Well upgrading to a bigger tank is out of the question, but I do like some of your suggestions. I am ok with getting rid of the minnows and actually 2 of the platys died recently (actually another also but I replaced that one). I really think they are being eaten, but I can't figure out which fish is doing it. I think its the denisons barbs personally, though everything I read says they are peaceful, they seem nippy at times. I am even ok with getting rid of the barbs as well (since I was looking to buy rummy nose tetras, but the store didn't have any and I wasn't really sure of their name at the time)

I was also considering bringing back 2 of the clown loaches (I just got the other 2 recently, but my first seemed happier without its friends)

I was already ok with getting rid of the red tailed shark, too, since the sharks fight a bit during feeding.

I really do not recommend that you keep only one clown loach. Loaches are naturally schooling fish and it is extremely rare that one would be "happier" on its own. Regardless, the tank really is not big enough for any because of their adult sizes.
It could be the denisonii, which would be because they're in a small group, but unlikely.
Maybe you should pick 1-2 of your favourite species, then stock around those? It's just that your current list is a bit all over the place, if you can see what I mean.

The pleco is an albino and (supposedly) doesn't get as large as the regular common pleco. As for the gouramis, I'll have to look up to see their sexes because I'm unsure at the moment.

You really want to get this one IDed with a species name, there is no size difference between wild-type and albino colour morphs, but there are some size differences between the different species. Can you post a photo of it and the gouramis?

p.s. please get your post count up to 10, I want to send you a PM with some resource suggestions.

 

[F!sh!es]

Whoops! Botia* not Boris, my phone changed it, sorry.

I believe both my gouramis are male. As I was looking up how to ID them, I read somewhere that most stores don't sell the females for whatever reason.

I'll take some pictures in a bit