Newbie

[dixiedawn]

Hi everyone..im new...and i have a few questions...

I bought my daughter (she's 3) a 10 gallon fishtank about while ago now. yes i know 3 is a bit young but she adores fish and i let her feed them after i measure out the food etc..all other maintenance is done by myself. It came with the usual stuff...gravel, couple of plants and a filter/pump. I set up the tank, put in the declorination stuff and the other chemical to even out the ph balance in the water..plugged in the pump and allowed it to set for about a week before setting off to buy the fish. I bought two mollies, a sliver and a black one..which i know now why one is dead..because i din't have a heater for it. However im at a loss as to why one (i forgot to close the lid one night after feeding) decided he was gonna commit suicide!? The next day the white one was belly up. For about two weeks the other fish in the tank...2 male guppies and 3 tetras hung in there..then 2 of the tetras decided to get stuck in the filter...and then the remaining 3 followed suit and died on the same day.

So i thinks to myself..i'll get her a couple of goldfish. They'll live through almost anything. Well i spied a couple of nice looking fantails. They wern't expensive, and were very active in the tanks at the store. One i assume is a black moor..he's got the fantail and he has bulging eyes..rather fat thing too...and the other was an orange one but his eyes are inset and he's slightly smaller than the other one. My questions to you guys are...are they male or female? And also I want to know what i can do to keep these two from dieing. They seem to settle themselves in the gravel for bout 10 min at a time then go berzerk swimming around the tank..then they go back to the little bed that they've made in the corner. Is this normal and what should i be feeding them other than flake food thanks loads
and sorry this is a bit of a novel lol
Dixie xx

 

[QuotheRaven]

Okie dokie (Please note I am not trying to sound harsh or aggressive and if it is interpreted that way im sorry as it's not meant that way )

The ten gallon tank is to small for goldfish and one goldfish needs ten gallons to itself AT LEAST... the answer to your other fish dying is the tank isn't cycled ( a item many aquariums fail to mention). See the filter needs bacteria in it which is a good bacteria... what happens is
1: Fish are added 2: Fish Poo 3: Poo releases ammonia into the water 4: Ammonia is toxic to fish 5: If the tank isn't cycled the fish usually die

So what you need to do is if you want your fish to survive is to either Fishless cycle or Fish cycle your tank OR get some mature filter material.

Fishless cycling the most humane method involves a empty tank except a filter, heater and water ( heater is optional if it is to contain cold water fish of course) you then put pure ammonia into the water each day and use a ammonia test kit to read the ammonia levels and they should peak at 8.0ppm then it will go down but now you must test for NitrIte which is what ammonia becomes as a tank is cycling however this is also toxic to fish this then peaks as you continually add ammonia to the water then it will go down and be converted to Nitrate (notice the a instead of the I) which is harmless to fish....once you have 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrite ( which means you need to buy NitrIte and Ammonia test kits along with a NitrAte test kit) you make sure the tank is safe with 0 ammonia and nitrite and keep adding ammonia then go off and buy a fish SUITABLE FOR YOUR TANK VOLUME ( some research will need to be done, I advise you to not listen to the people at the aquarium or pet shop at their recommendations) which should be fine as the fish will then supply the ammonia. (PS Im no expert on fishless cycling but thats to the best of my knowledge)...This process can tank 6 weeks or more...

Fish cycling involves the fish supplying the ammonia instead of your pure ammonia however the fish then has to try and survive the toxicity of the ammonia and nitrite which can kill it...

Getting mature filter material will supply the bacteria already and "seed" your filter with good bacteria and if the amount is good enough it should cycle your tank as long as ammonia is supplied... however obtaining mature filter material can be tough

I hope that helps at the moment and while it's not the cleanest explanation its the best I can give good luck

 

[Lynda B]

You've been given excellent advice. I'm sorry you lost your fish. I hope it wasn't too traumatic for your young daughter. Many of us got our tanks up and running, only to find we'd been given poor, if any, advice on how to start the tank up properly and cycle it.

If you've already purchased the goldfish, please return one. As said above, goldfish need a lot of space, because they are huge waste producers.

You'll learn a lot by just poking through threads here or even doing a google for "aquarium nitrogen cycle". What you'll read will surprise you.

 

[dixiedawn]

thanks for the info!!

I don't tend to listen to the folks down at the shops..i used to work in one myself..but im baffled at it all. I've already separated the two fish and won't be able to send one back until tomorrow...but i think he'll be fine until i can get him back...took half of the water out and put it in a large fish bowl...and a spare filter i have...hopefully he'll make it till tomorrow to return him.

Sprout (my daughter and that's not her name but just something i call her) is ok with it..she's learning about a bit of responsibility and life /death..she's taken it very well...

Still doesnt answer my question about why they're bedding down..i didn't think fish slept!!

 

[QuotheRaven]

I gather they are not well and are lethargic and are resting on the gravel....HOWEVER I myself haven't owned goldfish seriously for many years... are there any white spots on the fish like baby powder or the fish flicking off of the gravel by turning to the side and shooting off the gravel?....

Also the fish jumped from the tank not commiting suicide as I doubt it realised what was outside the tank but may of become stressed or frightened and jumped and fell out of the tank as it jumped

 

[Lynda B]

My female bettas all find a cozy corner of their sorority tank and bed down for the night. Not sure about goldfish behavior though. As you just purchased them, it's more likely that they are still stressed and/or ill. Watch them carefully and read up on how to medicate various illnesses.

As for suicide, not so sure that's something a fish really thinks about. If you provide your particular species of fish with surroundings that seem natural to it, and keep their water at the proper parameters, they'll be happy and healthy and never even have bad dreams, nevermind bad thoughts.

Glad Sprout's doing well (love the nickname!).

 

[dixiedawn]

No..they look fine! no white 'dust' or spots...As i said before they bed down for a few mins..then swim around like a couple of loonies.
the orange goldfish..he seems happier in a bowl of his own..he's just going round n round and my daughter is talking to him now and he's 'glubbing' back at her. The moor however is my concern now...I think i'll take the plants and the one ornament out of the tank and see how he fairs...might be the problem..

The cycling thing confuses me a bit..but will read up on it more..aquire a larger tank and go from there.

Just out of curiosity..for a 10 gallon tank what's the maximum amount you can put in there..and what varieties go best with each other? As we all know store tanks appear to be over crowded ..hence why im asking!

This is a brilliant forum! Thanks!

 

[QuotheRaven]

Glad you like the forum

For a ten gallon in my opinion a Betta is a good option ( commonly known as siamese fighting fish) however they should be kept by themselves... A small shoal of neon tetra's however they aren't hardy... Guppies in the same boat there....

I would recommend a Betta as you just need to cycle the tank ( I advise a fishless cycle or get a mature filter) then add the Betta as they have great personalities which I would think your daughter would love as they are social and colourful...

If you opt for a larger tank it would be good for a tank 20 gallons or more as you have more freedom for mistakes and fish options

 

[Lynda B]

If you do go for a betta, how about a couple of females instead of one male. They're really fun and interactive. Mine will eat from my hand. And you can actually pet them.

 

[dixiedawn]

Thanks!! Will give it a go!! I took the plants out of the tank and he's perking up a little bit..who knows what the heck is going on lol

Advice has been brillaint...can see where my second internet home will be!

 

[dixiedawn]

Ok..i took the black moor back to the petshop this morning...bagged him up and sent him home. Being as i had a while to kill..i sorta stuck around until he was released into a quarintine tank. The min he got outta the bag..he was happy as larry!! I don't understand!! I stuck around for about half an hour and he was swimming and flairing up and looking all proud and everything! But i did notice that there was a sticky thermometor on the outside of the tank and a heater inside..is it possible that he's just happier with a bit more heat??
Now Fred (my daughter named the orange one) is acting all depressed where as all day yesterday since removing him from the tank and putting him in a bowl and into last night was happy...what the heck is going on???

 

[QuotheRaven]

The reason the goldfish was happy when released back to the pet shop is that the tank is cycled so no ammonia or nitrite was present and with Fred he was happy as he was put into the bowl which when you put him in it had No ammonia or nitrite but the more he is in there the more the ammonia will build and be harmful to your fish hope that helps

 

[dixiedawn]

Thanks...i should have thought about getting all the test kits and stuff while i was at the store..but it slipped my mind..should i run out and buy all this stuff this afternoon, or can it wait till early tomorrow morning before i go to get it...He's perking up a little bit and is happy it seems.

What would help reduce the amonia...i've read live plants do that..but can take some time..any quick fix solutions?

 

[QuotheRaven]

Well "quick fix" meaning temporary fixes are ammonia balls which I have never used but the convert ammonia to harmless ammonium but they aren't the best thing from what I have heard....

I advise you as you probably want the fish Fred...get the ten gallon drain all the water ( it's fishless isn't it?) and fill it up with declorinated water and put the filter on and then go to the Local store and get a ball thing ( the name escapes me they are green though) which converts ammonia to ammonium as a temporary fix while you sort out what to do...as I would think returning Fred is not your preferred alternative

 

[-germ-]

SeaChem prime, detoxifies ammonia and nitrite, also usable daily as a dechlorinator...

Can't wait for the day when everyone has tried Prime and IMNSHO realised how good it actually is, i've posted this same message err... about 12 times in the past two days...
Good luck whatever you choose to do