Newbie To Plants! Any Advice Would Be Great!

[lurch9494]

Hi

Firstly just wanted to say hello as I'm new to the forum. Ive just about got my tank running nicely now, after a hasty move of adress causing some very swift re-setting and cycling of my tank the water chemistry is now very good again and I have a tankfull of very happy fish. I want to get into real plants and hope to eventually get into auqa-landscaping.

Firstly I guess I should list my tank/filter/fish, so here are the details

Jewel Rio 180L tank,
Fluval 205 external filter using Fluval Clear Max and Amonia media with Biomax (no carbon now),
GLO T5 twin 38w overhead light unit with built in reflector)
12" T8 Marine blue tube and starter unit (for moonlighting)
200w jewel heater,
small Tetra air pump and airstone
Numerous large and small rocks, ornamental stone planter, 5-7mm coarse gravel

Ph 7.2
Ammonia/Nitite/Nitrate all now read almost 0
Temp 27C

1x Common Plec (about 4")
3x Flying fox (2-2.5")
5x male guppies
6x Neon Tetras
3x Clown Loach (2.5")
6x Rummy Nose Tetras
1x Red Tail Shark
7x Harlequins (Tetras?)

I have ordered a Tetra Optimat Co2 system (a second one to follow if its any good lol!), Tetra substrate, Tetra Plantmin fertiliser, Redsea plant test kit (Co2 and Iorn), plant tabs, some small 3.5" pots and lead strips etc and a mail order selection of plants from Plantsalive.co.uk (the 24" collection) and would love some advice on best methods of planting, Ideal Co2/Iorn levels/lighting and so forth. I had opted for pots as I could not empty the tank to put a substate under the gravel and intend to 'hide' the pots under the gravel.

Any advice would be greatfully accepted

 

[Phage]

Welcome to the forum
Before I post, I will say I am no plant expert as I am just starting myself but I will share what I've learned.

Firstly, tank size, wouldn't that be a little too small for fully grown common plec and clown loaches x3? Plec: 18-24" Clown Loach: 16-18 inches
Lighting and filter, I am no expert, hehe. Should wait for someone else to reply.
Heater should be good.
I don't think you would need an air stone if you were to plant. Plants naturally make oxygen due to the breakdown of CO2.
Gravel, not sure how well plain gravel works with plants but many people use special gravel like flourite, laterite, aquasoil, etc. to give more nutrients. I suppose TetraPlant Substrate is the UK equivalent to the previous mentioned?


CO2 is only needed with 2 WPG and above. Most low tech lighters don't use CO2.
Lighting is dependent on which plants you would like to plant. There are many lower light plants which shouldn't need higher 'WPG' and CO2. Which plants do you have in mind?


Common Pleco = bad for most plants. They will rasp away the top part of the leaves thus making them die. Probably won't see this until it is about 8" plus.

Sorry, I seem so negative...

Edit: Here is a link to help you decide which plants and which type of lighting you want/need

http/www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php

 

[aaronnorth]

get rid of the airpump, it drives off CO2.

a second one to follow if its any good lol!

they are not good, they need refilling a lot and wont be ideal on your tank, taking the size of the tank and lighting levels you should be going for a pressurized system. a cheap way is to use a fire extinghuisher (see 2 guides in my sig).

Redsea plant test kit (Co2 and Iorn)

CO2 test? how does this work? i am assuming this is a drop checker. no need for iron test kit either. infact there is no need for any test kits apart from ph, nitrite, nitrate, ammonia and possible GH & KH.

pots and especially lead weight restirct plant growth so dont use them, they dont need a nutrient rich substrate so it will be fine as the greavel is now.

you havemnt mentioned anything about fertilising?

 

[lurch9494]

Welcome to the forum
Before I post, I will say I am no plant expert as I am just starting myself but I will share what I've learned.

Firstly, tank size, wouldn't that be a little too small for fully grown common plec and clown loaches x3? Plec: 18-24" Clown Loach: 16-18 inches
Lighting and filter, I am no expert, hehe. Should wait for someone else to reply.
Heater should be good.
I don't think you would need an air stone if you were to plant. Plants naturally make oxygen due to the breakdown of CO2.
Gravel, not sure how well plain gravel works with plants but many people use special gravel like flourite, laterite, aquasoil, etc. to give more nutrients. I suppose TetraPlant Substrate is the UK equivalent to the previous mentioned?


CO2 is only needed with 2 WPG and above. Most low tech lighters don't use CO2.
Lighting is dependent on which plants you would like to plant. There are many lower light plants which shouldn't need higher 'WPG' and CO2. Which plants do you have in mind?


Common Pleco = bad for most plants. They will rasp away the top part of the leaves thus making them die. Probably won't see this until it is about 8" plus.

Sorry, I seem so negative...

Edit: Here is a link to help you decide which plants and which type of lighting you want/need

[URL="http/www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php"]http/www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php[/URL]

Hi and thanks for that.

Yes I now Know how large the clowns and Plec will get! (funny how nearly ALL fish shops neglect to tell you this BEFORE you buy!!) and already have plans for a much larger tank in the not so distant future. It seems as is the case with most hobbies, you learn by your mistakes, hence this forum is SO USEFULL!

 

[lurch9494]

get rid of the airpump, it drives off CO2.

a second one to follow if its any good lol!

they are not good, they need refilling a lot and wont be ideal on your tank, taking the size of the tank and lighting levels you should be going for a pressurized system. a cheap way is to use a fire extinghuisher (see 2 guides in my sig).

Redsea plant test kit (Co2 and Iorn)

CO2 test? how does this work? i am assuming this is a drop checker. no need for iron test kit either. infact there is no need for any test kits apart from ph, nitrite, nitrate, ammonia and possible GH & KH.

pots and especially lead weight restirct plant growth so dont use them, they dont need a nutrient rich substrate so it will be fine as the greavel is now.

you havemnt mentioned anything about fertilising?

Hi

Thanks for your reply. It seems as usual, everyone has a diffrent aproach! I was going by the genral advice from the suppliers (possibly a mistake lol!) but did think that just plain gravel would not be sufficent, even with liquid fertilisers??? I have ordered some Tetra Plantamin fertiliser

 

[lurch9494]

get rid of the airpump, it drives off CO2.

a second one to follow if its any good lol!

they are not good, they need refilling a lot and wont be ideal on your tank, taking the size of the tank and lighting levels you should be going for a pressurized system. a cheap way is to use a fire extinghuisher (see 2 guides in my sig).

Redsea plant test kit (Co2 and Iorn)

CO2 test? how does this work? i am assuming this is a drop checker. no need for iron test kit either. infact there is no need for any test kits apart from ph, nitrite, nitrate, ammonia and possible GH & KH.

pots and especially lead weight restirct plant growth so dont use them, they dont need a nutrient rich substrate so it will be fine as the greavel is now.

you havemnt mentioned anything about fertilising?

Hi

Thanks for your reply. It seems as usual, everyone has a diffrent aproach! I was going by the genral advice from the suppliers (possibly a mistake lol!) but did think that just plain gravel would not be sufficent, even with liquid fertilisers??? I have ordered some Tetra Plantamin fertiliser

I'm using a GLO T5 HO lighting unit rated at 39w for each bulb (two bulbs) making 78w total, I was told to more or less double this figure as the reflector directs all the light downward. The tank is 180 Liters, so roughly 40 gallons, so working roughly at 78w x 2, lets call it 160watts into 40 gallons makes 4watts per gallon. Is this a reasionable assumption or was the 'advise' from the shop a little optomistic and if so what kind of wattage per gallon should I be working on as I have been thinking of adding another 39w T5 unit.

 

[aaronnorth]

4wpg is plenty of light, the reflectors wont double the wpg, as there is still some 'restrike' onto the tube. with them being HOT5 though, it will be doubled anyway! so yes you have plenty of light, and you risk not having enough CO2 & fertiliser.

 

[lurch9494]

4wpg is plenty of light, the reflectors wont double the wpg, as there is still some 'restrike' onto the tube. with them being HOT5 though, it will be doubled anyway! so yes you have plenty of light, and you risk not having enough CO2 & fertiliser.

Thats great! I have had the Co2 kit, plants, fertilisers delivered today and have just finnished planting them out / installing the diffuser etc. In the delivery was a RedSea Co2/Iorn test kit and before I started I took some readings as baseline to see how things improve. The Iorn was almost nill as was the Co2, so it will be intresting to see the impovements over the next few days now I have added the Tetra Plantamin fertiliser and Co2. Considering I dont want to risk the fish, what kind of levels would be ideal for Co2 and Iorn?

I'm already thinking about a better Co2 system and think the fire exstinguisher system is a great Idea and IS SAFE as long as the OBVIOUS safety concerns are considered (I have had many years working with bottled gas, both inert and flammable, often at higher pressures as a welder)

All this help is invaluable and VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! Thank you

 

[aaronnorth]

CO2 should be around 30ppm

iron should be around 1ppm

the CO2 test kit may not be accurate as it relies on only bicarbonates being in the water, so any other sunstances like humic acids etc will affect the result, better to get a drop checker & 4dkh solution.

 

[lurch9494]

Thanks Arron

So who makes or sells a 'drop checker kit' and what is it lol? The plants seem to have picked up quite noticably already, but the supplier had said its a good idea to remove or prune any dead or dying leaves ( he mentioned the crypts in particular) is this right and if so, just snip off with a small pair of sissors?

thanks

 

[aaronnorth]

the crypts are suceptible to 'crypt melt' so if you want you can cut all the leaves off just leaving the base, or just cut them off as soon as you see any rotting appearing.

dead/ dying leaves produce ammonia which will trigger algae - scissors will be fine, just do 1 clean, sharp cut.

------------------------------------------

here is a drop checker: http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aquarium-CO2-Glass-D...id=p3286.c0.m14

and you also need 4dkh solution here: http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?...roducts_id=1977

1) turn drop checker (DC) upside down,
2) put 3 drops of the indicator in (supplied with DC)
3) with a pippette, squirt some 4dkh solution into the DC,
4) tilt at an angle so the mixture runs into the 'ball'
6) the 'ball' should be half full for best results.

with a kh of 4 (in drop checker) and a ph of 6.6 (tank water) you have a reading of 30ppm of CO2.

blue - too little
green - ok
yellow - too much

i like to run mine into the greeny yellow colour, as i know i have enough CO2 for the plants, not enough to kill fish, and not to little to cause algae outbreaks.

The solution may seem dear but that will last you years!

 

[lurch9494]

thanks Arron

Ok, looks like a drop checker next! I have had the Tetra optimat system going all day today and most of yesterday. I have turned it off (well let it run out) before I turn the lights off. The red sea Co2 test seems pretty inacurate as you had stated, but best guess from the rather hard to read test is a lowly 4ppm! is it worth leaving it running overnight aswell to see if I can raise this, or may I risk the livestock doing this (I know its hard to say with this test kit being unreliable) I have noticed a small drop in my Ph since using the kit, dropping from 7.2 to around 7-7.1 The nitrate value jumped from a very stable 0-5 to a 10ppm, could that just be the fertiliser?

Also, good fertilisers. I had just finnished reading about Iron and that in tanks with highish Ph (mine is about 7.1) that the iron in fertilisers can sediment very quickly and become usless in a matter of hours. I have checked the iron value with the redsea kit, but have found that test very difficult to read accuratly too! (Hmmm, seemed to have wasted £14 on that lot lol!) Can you recommend a better test kit? and a good fertiliser (I have just added Tetra Plantamin)

Thank you for the time and effort in answering all my questons and finding the links for me

Brian

 

[aaronnorth]

but best guess from the rather hard to read test is a lowly 4ppm!

you usually have around 6ppm of CO2 already dissolved in the water anyway lol.

Yes, Iron becomes chelated very quickly, if added the same time as another fertiliser, it will react with phosphate to form insoluable iron phosphate and it sometimes produces a white precipitate.

No need to buy a test kit for iron, you will probably have enough in your water for plants to survive (along with adding the fert)

The best fertilisers are seachem flourish & Tropica plant nutrition+

 

[lurch9494]

Thanks! THAT SAYS ALOT ABOUT THE REDSEA Co2 TEST KIT!!!!!!!!!!!! feel like I was robbed lol! I will invest in the fertilisers you stated