New To This And In Need Of Reassurance

[jit]

Hi, I;m new to fish

*History*
We bought a Juwel 180 tank app 2months ago. I let the tank mature for about 4 weeks before adding my first set of fish 3 weeks ago. Temp is 25C, all levels appear to be in line. O have chaned the white filters 3 times and plan to change the carbon filter in the next few days following instructions.

I had 9 fish. 2 dalmatian Mollies, 3 Silver Mollies and 4 Golden swordtails.

Last week I bagan to notice that one of the swordtails wasn't as active as the rest and seemed to be harrassed by its housemates. Closer inspection showed one of its fins was damaged and one eye was cloudy, it also spent a lot of time on the bottom of the tank - resting on the gravel.

A couple of days ago I removed the fish for fear of infection and to get harmony in the tank. I also conducted the first water change - app 25litres, I had let the new water mature for a few days before adding it.

*Question*
Now there appears to be harmony, but one of the silver mollies is spending a fair bit of time 'sitting' on the gravel - is this normal behaviour or a bad sign? I'd appreciate your comments

 

[PENNYWISE]

Did you use a dechloronising solution when you added the fresh water?

 

[InaneCathode]

Hi, I;m new to fish

*History*
We bought a Juwel 180 tank app 2months ago. I let the tank mature for about 4 weeks before adding my first set of fish 3 weeks ago. Temp is 25C, all levels appear to be in line. O have chaned the white filters 3 times and plan to change the carbon filter in the next few days following instructions.

I had 9 fish. 2 dalmatian Mollies, 3 Silver Mollies and 4 Golden swordtails.

Last week I bagan to notice that one of the swordtails wasn't as active as the rest and seemed to be harrassed by its housemates. Closer inspection showed one of its fins was damaged and one eye was cloudy, it also spent a lot of time on the bottom of the tank - resting on the gravel.

A couple of days ago I removed the fish for fear of infection and to get harmony in the tank. I also conducted the first water change - app 25litres, I had let the new water mature for a few days before adding it.

*Question*
Now there appears to be harmony, but one of the silver mollies is spending a fair bit of time 'sitting' on the gravel - is this normal behaviour or a bad sign? I'd appreciate your comments

I don't mean to shoot you down here, but here goes anyway.
Tank's don't mature on their own without you proactively cycling it with ammonia.
Every time you change the filter you remove beneficial bacteria which process your fish waste which is toxic to your fish.
Ammonia (fish waste) will cause enourmous stress on your fish in small amounts, this stress is probably what's causing your swordtail problems.
What kind of harmony are you talking about? Running the tank empty doesnt do anything other than potentially starve out the good bacteria in your filter.
Mollies are brackish fish, they need brackish water.

 

[DoyouWantsum]

When you say you changed the white filter, do you meen that thin layer of floss that sits at the top of the filter.

 

[jit]

Did you use a dechloronising solution when you added the fresh water?

 

[dwarfgourami]

InaneCathode has already identified your problem.
When you add fish, they start adding ammonia to the tank (by breathing and excretions). Unfortunately, ammonia is toxic to them. Tap water contains ammonia-eating bacteria, but not enough to deal with a tankful of fish. Eventually, when they get a source of food, these bacteria will start multiplying until there are enough, but it takes a while- so in the meantime the tank can only sustain a very small population of fish without poisoning them.
A further complication is that the ammonia-eating bacteria turn the ammonia into nitrites- also poisonous. The water contains nitrite-eating bacteria too- but again the colony needs to grow, so there is a dangerous first few weeks while the fish are churning out ammonia=nitrites but there aren't enough bacteria to deal with it.
The nitrite-eating bacteria will produce nitrates=less dangerous but will want to be diluted by regular water changes.
This whole process of encouraging bacteria growth is known as cycling a tank. It can be done in two ways, either by introducing a very small number of fish (cycling with fish), or by adding liquid ammonia for a few weeks until test results show that the waste is being processed instantaneously. This latter method is known as fishless cycling.
In your case, you are clearly cycling with fish. Unfortunately, this does involve a risk to the fish. Symptoms like finrot, and cloudy eye, are typical of water stats problems. A livebearer that sits on the gravel is also a bad sign, unless it's a female giving birth.
Once the tank is cycled, a good maintenance routine would be to do a weekly water change of about 20-25% (so about 30-40 ltrs). But while you are still having trouble, you probably need to do them a good deal more frequently than that. If you use a dechlorinator, this saves the need of letting water stand- and it neutralises chloramines which some water boards add to the water. I would do a water change straightaway.
Then you need to buy a liquid test kit and test the water every day for ammonia and nitrites. Every time either goes over 0.5-1 ppm do a water change, even if it means once a day.
Also, take a look at nitrates from time to time. They should be within 10 ppm of your tap water- if not, you may be overfeeding.
It is also worth testing your ph and water hardness. Mollies really do need hard alkaline water- if yours turns out to be soft and acid, you should look into other fish.
Fish will almost certainly bully a sick companion- the reason is self preservation: let's drive this one away before it attracts predators! Nothing you can do about that except try to isolate sick fish and treat them separately. But other bullying problems can also ensue: most livebearers (mollies, swordtails etc) are highly sexed- and swordtail males in particular can be quite aggressive in their machoism. So it's best to have females only, or a rate of 2-3 females per male, or a very large group of males- though this could be dodgy with swordtails, there is probably best to keep just the one male.

 

[jit]

Did you use a dechloronising solution when you added the fresh water?

Hi Yes, used dechlorinising solution.

 

[jit]

Thank you very much. I have the 5 in 1 stat test strips, and nitrite levels are where required, is this not accurate enough? are these good or is a liquid test kit different.

I don't think the silver molly is pregnant so need to try and save it!

I will do a water change straight away and see what happens.

InaneCathode has already identified your problem.
When you add fish, they start adding ammonia to the tank (by breathing and excretions). Unfortunately, ammonia is toxic to them. Tap water contains ammonia-eating bacteria, but not enough to deal with a tankful of fish. Eventually, when they get a source of food, these bacteria will start multiplying until there are enough, but it takes a while- so in the meantime the tank can only sustain a very small population of fish without poisoning them.
A further complication is that the ammonia-eating bacteria turn the ammonia into nitrites- also poisonous. The water contains nitrite-eating bacteria too- but again the colony needs to grow, so there is a dangerous first few weeks while the fish are churning out ammonia=nitrites but there aren't enough bacteria to deal with it.
The nitrite-eating bacteria will produce nitrates=less dangerous but will want to be diluted by regular water changes.
This whole process of encouraging bacteria growth is known as cycling a tank. It can be done in two ways, either by introducing a very small number of fish (cycling with fish), or by adding liquid ammonia for a few weeks until test results show that the waste is being processed instantaneously. This latter method is known as fishless cycling.
In your case, you are clearly cycling with fish. Unfortunately, this does involve a risk to the fish. Symptoms like finrot, and cloudy eye, are typical of water stats problems. A livebearer that sits on the gravel is also a bad sign, unless it's a female giving birth.
Once the tank is cycled, a good maintenance routine would be to do a weekly water change of about 20-25% (so about 30-40 ltrs). But while you are still having trouble, you probably need to do them a good deal more frequently than that. If you use a dechlorinator, this saves the need of letting water stand- and it neutralises chloramines which some water boards add to the water. I would do a water change straightaway.
Then you need to buy a liquid test kit and test the water every day for ammonia and nitrites. Every time either goes over 0.5-1 ppm do a water change, even if it means once a day.
Also, take a look at nitrates from time to time. They should be within 10 ppm of your tap water- if not, you may be overfeeding.
It is also worth testing your ph and water hardness. Mollies really do need hard alkaline water- if yours turns out to be soft and acid, you should look into other fish.
Fish will almost certainly bully a sick companion- the reason is self preservation: let's drive this one away before it attracts predators! Nothing you can do about that except try to isolate sick fish and treat them separately. But other bullying problems can also ensue: most livebearers (mollies, swordtails etc) are highly sexed- and swordtail males in particular can be quite aggressive in their machoism. So it's best to have females only, or a rate of 2-3 females per male, or a very large group of males- though this could be dodgy with swordtails, there is probably best to keep just the one male.

 

[Irf]

Just one more observation in addition to what dwarfgourami has already said.....

Apart from not actually being cycled (by whatever ammonia source), the tank seems to have had just one water change since you've had it. I think that even if the tank did somehow cycle itself in the first month, you needed to have done a big water change before adding the fish.

Not sure though.....

Irf.

 

[xoedusk]

Don't change the filter material for a long while. This is the location that cycling occurs, and you don't want the bacteria to be tossed out every week. Filter instructions say to change it so often for money.

I would recommend daily water changes of 15 to 20% until no ammonia/nitrite can be detected. This will hopefully keep your fish alive while your tank cycles.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

 

[jit]

Hi, Have changed the water and reduced feed and aadded mmonia & nitrite removal solution. Also did not feed them yesterday as I may have been overfeeding. Over the past 24 hours they are all lively - including the silver molly I was concerned about.

Will not change the carbon (black filer) for a while yet, recommended every 6 weeks by Juwel. But have changed the white filter that sits right at the top of the filter housing, recommended every week.

Thanks again, feeling much more comfortable, learning and enjoying the ride.

Jit

 

[InaneCathode]

Hi, Have changed the water and reduced feed and aadded mmonia & nitrite removal solution. Also did not feed them yesterday as I may have been overfeeding. Over the past 24 hours they are all lively - including the silver molly I was concerned about.

Will not change the carbon (black filer) for a while yet, recommended every 6 weeks by Juwel. But have changed the white filter that sits right at the top of the filter housing, recommended every week.

Thanks again, feeling much more comfortable, learning and enjoying the ride.

Jit

Although i'm not familiar with that particular filter, i think it covers pretty much any filter to say: Don't change it unless it's blocked/ancient. Seriously. If it has contact with water your beneficial bacterial will be stuck to it.

 

[dwarfgourami]

Although i'm not familiar with that particular filter, i think it covers pretty much any filter to say: Don't change it unless it's blocked/ancient. Seriously. If it has contact with water your beneficial bacterial will be stuck to it.

With the Juwel tanks, the white bit is not part of the filter sponge, it's just a piece of floss that sits on the top to catch large debris. You can cut down on the expense of changing this weekly by rinsing it out in old tank water every week, should last at least a few weeks that way. But it does need a clean or the filter will clog up. The carbon filter does need to be changed according to instructions or it will get saturated and start releasing toxins back into the water. Another way is to exhange the carbon filter for another piece of blue sponge which you can then keep in indefinitely, just rinsing out now and then in old tank water. This is what I have done on my Juwel tanks.