New to Site--Need help with an unusual problem

[Pondkeeper]

Hi All,
I am new to the site but have been a fish keeper since I was a kid, including tropical and saltwater aquariums. My latest venture is kind of unusual--I built myself an indoor fiberglass pond in my living room. It is about 6 feet by 3 feet and 8 inches deep. I figure it holds about 65-75 gallons of water. It's got a 300W Eheim heater and a Pond Master filter and is lit by 3 Kessill 160 fixtures. I left the black fiberglass bottom bare for contrast and ease of cleaning, adding a few potted plants and some fancy guppies, but that got boring, so I added water lilies. This is where my trouble started--on day one the guppies began eating holes in the lily pads. Ultimately, I donated the guppies and a spare tank to my nephew's school. I did some research (online / fish store) to find colorful fish that wouldn't eat plants and settled on sunset platies, which multiple sources said would only "graze on algae or nibble on decaying plant matter". Of course, they turned out to be worse offenders than the guppies were. I'm running out of people to donate fish to, so the third try has to be the charm. I'm leaning towards Cardinal Tetras, but of course the experts say they only eat algae and/or decaying plant matter as well.... anyone have any actual experience that might guide me here? Thanks!!

 

[emeraldking]

Hi & welcome to our forum to start with...
Basically, a lot of aquarium fish love eating at plants. But the question is how enthuasiastic are they when trying to eat those plants. In general, cardinal tetras would be fine in such a habitat. They'll use those plants as cover. Unless, there's hardly no food in that pond. But I assume you're taking gtood care of them that won't be the problem.

 

[GaryE]

If the plants weren't already in trouble, I think both guppies and platies would have been fine. They eat algae and such growing on leaves, but don't really go after leaves unless decay and set in and softened them. I watched mollies in the wild feeding on the undersides of lily pads, and the plants were undamaged. Mollies can do more damage than guppies can.

With cardinals, you have a serious switch. While guppies and platies like medium hard to hard water at 73/74f, cardinals want much warmer and very soft water. Heating the pond up to that will add a lot of humidity to an NYC space in winter. What's your water hardness and what temp do (you and) your plants like?

 

[Fish Fan1]

Welcome to TFF! Good luck with your pond!

 

[Pondkeeper]

If the plants weren't already in trouble, I think both guppies and platies would have been fine. They eat algae and such growing on leaves, but don't really go after leaves unless decay and set in and softened them. I watched mollies in the wild feeding on the undersides of lily pads, and the plants were undamaged. Mollies can do more damage than guppies can.

With cardinals, you have a serious switch. While guppies and platies like medium hard to hard water at 73/74f, cardinals want much warmer and very soft water. Heating the pond up to that will add a lot of humidity to an NYC space in winter. What's your water hardness and what temp do (you and) your plants like?

Hi Gary...
I'm a Gary Too! Thanks for the input...the mollies certainly did more damage than the guppies. They actually ate the underside of the pads until they broke through. They favored one plant over the others, but after they ate all the leaves off that one they moved on to the rest. As of yesterday, they moved on to my brother's basement aquarium. But the plants were all healthy, growing, and flowering for months before I added the platies, so I don't think decay was the reason the fish used them as a salad bar.

Regarding my idea about trying cardinals, I use R/O water to fill the pond so I can adjust the water parameters as needed. Other than that, do you think they will leave my plants alone? My apartment has a southern exposure and giant picture windows, so I'm already used to hot and humid...

 

[Pondkeeper]

Hi & welcome to our forum to start with...
Basically, a lot of aquarium fish love eating at plants. But the question is how enthuasiastic are they when trying to eat those plants. In general, cardinal tetras would be fine in such a habitat. They'll use those plants as cover. Unless, there's hardly no food in that pond. But I assume you're taking gtood care of them that won't be the problem.

Thanks for the welcome!! And for your vote on the cardinals...hopefully the third time's the charm.

 

[AJ356]

Welcome to the forum. What a nice project. I wasn't sure if your goal is to competely restock the pond Fish wise or add cardinals with the livebearers. If you just want your fish to exist/survive, it might work.

If you want to provide the absolute best possible environment that you can for your given Fish selection, cardinals are not compatible with guppies, platies, or mollies because of their different requirements in water parameters.

People will say "the fish will adapt" or "I've kept bla bla bla fish for years in hard water and they are thriving", but you need to decide... to either do what's convenient for You, or study where Fish come from originally and the water parameters they have evolved to live in. That Fish have been commercially bred in different water parameters to their natural water doesn't mean the fish has adapted to the point they will thrive in our home aquarium and the water we deem suitable for them

 

[Pondkeeper]

Welcome to the forum. What a nice project. I wasn't sure if your goal is to competely restock the pond Fish wise or add cardinals with the livebearers. If you just want your fish to exist/survive, it might work.

If you want to provide the absolute best possible environment that you can for your given Fish selection, cardinals are not compatible with guppies, platies, or mollies because of their different requirements in water parameters.

People will say "the fish will adapt" or "I've kept bla bla bla fish for years in hard water and they are thriving", but you need to decide... to either do what's convenient for You, or study where Fish come from originally and the water parameters they have evolved to live in. That Fish have been commercially bred in different water parameters to their natural water doesn't mean the fish has adapted to the point they will thrive in our home aquarium and the water we deem suitable for them

Thanks for the welcome!! I gave away all the platies yesterday. I trimmed off the damaged lily pads and will give the plants a while to regrow the leaves. Then I will do a major water change using RO water and set parameters to cardinal-favoring values...

 

[GaryE]

I keep, and sometimes breed cardinals. It's a species I like a lot. But if you are looking down into the pond, you will probably never see them. Given their size and environment, they are cautious little things. One of the great dangers in the world of tiny fishes are birds, and they stay out of open water without plant cover.
Can I ask why you are focusing on the species you are?
And how high is the top of the pond from the water? I'd consider a surface dweller, but some may be jumpy.

 

[Pondkeeper]

I keep, and sometimes breed cardinals. It's a species I like a lot. But if you are looking down into the pond, you will probably never see them. Given their size and environment, they are cautious little things. One of the great dangers in the world of tiny fishes are birds, and they stay out of open water without plant cover.
Can I ask why you are focusing on the species you are?
And how high is the top of the pond from the water? I'd consider a surface dweller, but some may be jumpy.

I picked cardinals because the online research I did indicated there is a good chance they won't eat my plants, I have always liked them, I thought they would show up nicely against the black fiberglass bottom of my pond, and they are not known to be jumpers. If you have an alternative recommendation, I'm all ears.

From the bottom to the top lip of the pond is 12 inches, but I keep the water at the 8-inch level.

 

[GaryE]

There are about a hundred species that won't eat plants and would show. Beyond not eating plants, what do you want to see?

If I had a heated pond, 'Corydoras' sterbai in a group of a dozen would show, with their bright pectoral fins. Some of the tan coloured Cory group fish as well, though they hug the bottom. 8 inches isn't far down.

A big group of Epiplatys annulatus, with their luminous forehead eye, would be cool. So would norman's lampeye. Some mid sized gouramis would work.

Anyone else out there have ideas for surface oriented insect eaters? Ideally, non jumping ones? I thought of hatchet fish, lineatus killies, and creatures like that, but they could end up on the floor.

Most even brightly coloured fish have dark backs, as camouflage for birds.

NYC must have good stores and species available I wouldn't get in my sleepy little port city.

 

[Pondkeeper]

There are about a hundred species that won't eat plants and would show. Beyond not eating plants, what do you want to see?

If I had a heated pond, 'Corydoras' sterbai in a group of a dozen would show, with their bright pectoral fins. Some of the tan coloured Cory group fish as well, though they hug the bottom. 8 inches isn't far down.

A big group of Epiplatys annulatus, with their luminous forehead eye, would be cool. So would norman's lampeye. Some mid sized gouramis would work.

Anyone else out there have ideas for surface oriented insect eaters? Ideally, non jumping ones? I thought of hatchet fish, lineatus killies, and creatures like that, but they could end up on the floor.

Most even brightly coloured fish have dark backs, as camouflage for birds.

NYC must have good stores and species available I wouldn't get in my sleepy little port city.

Thanks for the reco....to boil it down, I am looking for non-jumper fish that are brightly colored, and that are non-aggressive against their own species or other species (so I can keep more than 2-3 fish which would get lost in a pond with 15 square feet of surface area). They don't have to be surface oriented--since the pond is only 8" deep, they will be visible wherever.

Actually, due to the sky-high rent in NYC there are only 3 good fish stores in the whole city, all in out-of-the-way places--One is in Harlem, one is in Chinatown and the other is plastered along the Hudson River.