New To Livebears, And Obsessed Have Question

[jbjack]

i have recently inheited several live bears, plus some other small fish, i would like to get more of the same, they are so awsome! what would the minimum size tank with awsome fitration be for this set up...

10 platies
10 guppies
4 baloon mollies
20 danios
20 neons

right now i have this going.....

5 platies
10 guppies
4 ballon mollies
10 danios
10 neons

they are in a 40 wide. bubble wall, tank is very heavily planted, and has a duel filter for 60 gallons, (one of those whispers where you just use a carbon filled inserts) and a aqua clear 70 for up to 70 gallons (with sponge, carbon, and biomax inserts) so i have enough filtration going for 130 gallons lol, these are obviously all peaceful fish, is what i want feasable in this 40? or should i just stick with what i got? i really want to add some more fish to fill it up a bit, but if i cant thats ok as well, also the more babies the better as i have a needle nose gae and S/A cichlid tank......

also what is a good cleaner fish to throw in that tank that wont eat babies and least likely to eat the danios scattered eggs? any thing? or am i better off with nothing.... i was thinking maybe one of those plecos that stay small.... any thing better though? doesnt have to eat algae...

 

[luque]

not too sure about 20 danios these are very fast and skittish fish.

could you give us the dimensions please

luke

 

[jbjack]

not too sure about 20 danios these are very fast and skittish fish.

could you give us the dimensions please

luke

dimensions:
length 32
width 13
height 22

39.62 us gallons

and lets scrap the 20 danios and neons and go with:

15 platies
10 guppies
4 balloon mollies
15 danios
15 neons

or something like that......open to sugestions, just want some more in that tank if i can, and am open to any suggestions, danios here are $0.40 neons are $1.99 and there are some amazing red platys (i dont have anything red) for $1.49 not the biggest fan of the balloon mollies and 10 guppies are enough.

 

[luque]

again not too sure about the danios they are sooo fast.

Try the 1 inch for each gallon (or litre forgot ) because i think that would be overstocked

 

[rabbut]

again not too sure about the danios they are sooo fast.

Try the 1 inch for each gallon (or litre forgot ) because i think that would be overstocked

As stated above, you are considered overstocked by many already. For the reised stocking list you would need arround 75 gallons, roughly 4foot, tank.

You may well get away with a 50 gall, as most are low waste producers, but you cirtainly wouldn't be able to stock them all in your existing tank without lon-tearm problems. Good small plecos include; l66, l18, common bristlenose, and l200. All stay below 8 inches, most at arround 6. Look them up in a google image search, and if any attract your fancy, ask for more info

HTH
rabbut

 

[Neo8223]

If you have enough filteration for a 130 gall and you have a 40 gall tank, then i reckon that even overstocking at that level is fine for you. Buy 4 test kits:

pH
Nitrite
Nitrate (notice the spelling difference)
Ammona

As long as the nitrite and ammonia levels stay at 0, then you are good. Is your tank densely planted with live plants, do a water change every 2 weeks. If not, then water changes of once every 1 week will keep the nitrate levels down. I ALWAYS do a 50% water change every week and i have a densely planted tank. and totally overstocked, but i have not had a death in my tank in a good 5 months (or 2 weeks if you include a stupid death where an endler got into a drop checker) Alike you, i also over filter. The pH test kit is just useful to have and you can alter the pH depending on the optimal parameters for fish.

You have a 3 foot tank! Zebra Danios are fast, but 3 foot is plenty. However, 15 is quite a lot. I'd stick with 10 imo cuz they are FAST fish.

With ALL that said, i'd still stick with the fish you got. You have a lot of live bearers which will breed. The more they breed, the more fish you have and the more waste you get. The main reason why i'm overstocked is because 10 endlers became 60 in 4 weeks! Then my cherry barbs bred and that was a few more!

EDIT! oh also only overstock if you know what you are doing. As you are new to fish, i wouldnt recoommend any more than you already have, even though your tank setup theoretically can take it.

 

[jbjack]

If you have enough filteration for a 130 gall and you have a 40 gall tank, then i reckon that even overstocking at that level is fine for you. Buy 4 test kits:

pH
Nitrite
Nitrate (notice the spelling difference)
Ammona

As long as the nitrite and ammonia levels stay at 0, then you are good. Is your tank densely planted with live plants, do a water change every 2 weeks. If not, then water changes of once every 1 week will keep the nitrate levels down. I ALWAYS do a 50% water change every week and i have a densely planted tank. and totally overstocked, but i have not had a death in my tank in a good 5 months (or 2 weeks if you include a stupid death where an endler got into a drop checker) Alike you, i also over filter. The pH test kit is just useful to have and you can alter the pH depending on the optimal parameters for fish.

You have a 3 foot tank! Zebra Danios are fast, but 3 foot is plenty. However, 15 is quite a lot. I'd stick with 10 imo cuz they are FAST fish.

With ALL that said, i'd still stick with the fish you got. You have a lot of live bearers which will breed. The more they breed, the more fish you have and the more waste you get. The main reason why i'm overstocked is because 10 endlers became 60 in 4 weeks! Then my cherry barbs bred and that was a few more!

EDIT! oh also only overstock if you know what you are doing. As you are new to fish, i wouldnt recoommend any more than you already have, even though your tank setup theoretically can take it.

thanks neo, i should clear some things up, i have beenkeeping fish for some 15 years with little to no deaths, i am an expert with all cichlids as i have sucessfully kept mbuna,(15 yrs.) S/A cichlids, (5 years) hybrid Cichlids, (5 years) and central cichlids (5 years) true, and false gars (5 years) and discus tanks(12 years) and succesfully breed most of them as well. I fully understand cycling, fitration, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, hardness, and others trace elements, and parimeters for healthy fish. the only reason i ask these questions , and post them in new to the hobby is i am only breaking into live bears / communty fish. I am definately an over stocker but dont like to get crazy, there is a fine line between what makes a hobbiest happy with there tank, and what is unhealthy and even worse, unhappy fish... eg) crazy overstock with mbuna, but done right they are very happy and healthy, but can only slightly over stock my S/A tanks or they fight, pollute, and become unhappy, and unhealthy. with that said.....

I dont fully know about overstocking with these live bearers, how they react and pollute, i have no worries about babies because all babies will be fed to the cichlids and gars (save me ALOT of money) so the more babies the better. i have the tank very heavily planted, but with fake plants. this is my set up:

two extremely large plants on each side making the sides extremely bushy and coming up to the surface and over covering most of the top surface of the tank, two breeding mats one on each side of a large fake hollow rock with holes in it, and several regular tall plants around it and in the back. massive fitratin and a full lenght bubble wall that runns all the time. and very deep gravel. i have 10 guppies 2 are male, 11 platies, 2 are male, 15 neons, 5 ballon mollies 2 are male. the water parimeters are staying well, ( 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, and 5-10 nitrate, i ALWAYS do partial water changes in all my tanks needed or not every 10 days. so far all fish are happy healthy and getting along just fine.

hopefully this helps and i am very interested to see what you all think, i will posting pics later. comments and suggestions welcome as i am new to this community thing. seems very easy though. thanks for all you help thus far.

thanks

 

[rabbut]

thanks neo, i should clear some things up, i have beenkeeping fish for some 15 years with little to no deaths, i am an expert with all cichlids as i have sucessfully kept mbuna,(15 yrs.) S/A cichlids, (5 years) hybrid Cichlids, (5 years) and central cichlids (5 years) true, and false gars (5 years) and discus tanks(12 years) and succesfully breed most of them as well. I fully understand cycling, fitration, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, hardness, and others trace elements, and parimeters for healthy fish. the only reason i ask these questions , and post them in new to the hobby is i am only breaking into live bears / communty fish. I am definately an over stocker but dont like to get crazy, there is a fine line between what makes a hobbiest happy with there tank, and what is unhealthy and even worse, unhappy fish... eg) crazy overstock with mbuna, but done right they are very happy and healthy, but can only slightly over stock my S/A tanks or they fight, pollute, and become unhappy, and unhealthy. with that said.....

I dont fully know about overstocking with these live bearers, how they react and pollute, i have no worries about babies because all babies will be fed to the cichlids and gars (save me ALOT of money) so the more babies the better. i have the tank very heavily planted, but with fake plants. this is my set up:

two extremely large plants on each side making the sides extremely bushy and coming up to the surface and over covering most of the top surface of the tank, two breeding mats one on each side of a large fake hollow rock with holes in it, and several regular tall plants around it and in the back. massive fitratin and a full lenght bubble wall that runns all the time. and very deep gravel. i have 10 guppies 2 are male, 11 platies, 2 are male, 15 neons, 5 ballon mollies 2 are male. the water parimeters are staying well, ( 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, and 5-10 nitrate, i ALWAYS do partial water changes in all my tanks needed or not every 10 days. so far all fish are happy healthy and getting along just fine.

hopefully this helps and i am very interested to see what you all think, i will posting pics later. comments and suggestions welcome as i am new to this community thing. seems very easy though. thanks for all you help thus far.

thanks

Taking into account your past experience and the fact that your tank has ample filtration, I would say then, that oxygen will be you limiting factor. Do you have a test kit for oxygen? I am sure you are probibly already aware of what the oxygen content should be in a "normal" tropical fish tank, at 25-26 centigrade, i.e. 8mg/l. I would say, you have upto 50% leway on the inch per gallon rule with the types of fish you have, as they all produce little waste, and are non-agressive normaly. Bear in mind that with that ammount of fish you should be expecting 50% weekly waterchanges though, as nitrate may build up quite quickly.
I would gradualy build up your stocking, doing the usual 4 critial values after each adition, but also test for oxygen a day or so after. When oxygen drops below 5mg/l, will all air stones and veturis off for 24hours before the test, you are at your stocking limit. It is critical that all aditional airation adding devises are off, as in overstocked tanks, it is usualy lack of oxyegn that catches your fish should the power fail. Unless you are keeping live plants and injection CO2 I would run aditional airation as the norm, to keep T.D.O. high.

HTH
rabbut

 

[jbjack]

thats a good point, also, do powerheads for added airation annoy or stress these fish out, was thinking of adding one, but dont wanna stres the lil guys out...

 

[rabbut]

thats a good point, also, do powerheads for added airation annoy or stress these fish out, was thinking of adding one, but dont wanna stres the lil guys out...

It would realy depend upon the flow rate of the powerhead. Did you have anyone in particular i mind? It would also depend upon the diffuser used (if any)

Rabbut

 

[jbjack]

hat would you recomend, dont have one to use for that tank, would buy a new one...

 

[rabbut]

hat would you recomend, dont have one to use for that tank, would buy a new one...

Sorry for the delayed reply, having computer issues again I have had a number of Maxijets, all of which serve me well, with good design all round. They are also used at my place of work, in the fish room, with 140 tanks. The equipment goes through hell backwards lol, and in the last 7 years, we have only had failures, when staff have dropped parts from the top of a set of ladders.... Literly, everything the instructions tell you not to do with them, is done to each powerhead every week, so they are seriously reliable bits of kit

HTH
rabbut

 

[n3ont3tra]

again not too sure about the danios they are sooo fast.

Try the 1 inch for each gallon (or litre forgot ) because i think that would be overstocked

I wish people would stop recommending this... it's only a LOOSE GUIDELINE

Anyway. I dond't really read most of the posts, sorry, but for teh stocking in the first post I would suggest a 55g, and it you wanted to breed the livebearers then move up to a 75g.

 

[Luketendo]

again not too sure about the danios they are sooo fast.

Try the 1 inch for each gallon (or litre forgot ) because i think that would be overstocked

I wish people would stop recommending this... it's only a LOOSE GUIDELINE

Anyway. I dond't really read most of the posts, sorry, but for teh stocking in the first post I would suggest a 55g, and it you wanted to breed the livebearers then move up to a 75g.

It's probably quite a good idea to suggest this to beginners, because I remember my first year of fishkeeping, most things died pretty quickly, probably because is wasn't as knowledgeable.

 

[n3ont3tra]

But then you have people that would want a red tailed shark in a 10 gallon, or 2 zebra danios in a 5 gallon... Every situation is different, one LOOSE GUIDELINE can't apply to them all.