New To Fish Keeping (starting A Fishless Cycle)

[ebross67]

Hello all,

I'm new to fish keeping and I'm doing a fishless cycle. I bought a 20/g Top Fin tank (everything you need in one package deal).
Decorations: blue and white gravel, air bubbler/w stone, fake tree with some fake flowers 6in, cool castle 9in, piece of driftwood flat 6in.
Cleaned all decorations thoroughly.

I raised the temp to 85 degrees. Tank is in finished basement away from direct light. I keep the lights on 12hrs a day.

Tap water properties: PH 7.2, GH 130ppm, KH 80ppm, Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 0ppm.

Day 1: Added water let sit with filter running (no media). Water properties same as tap. De-Chlorinated water.

Day 3: Added 4ppm of pure ammonia (5:00 pm) Water properties: PH 7.5, GH 130ppm, KH 80ppm, Ammonia 4ppm, Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 0ppm.

Day 4-14: Did nothing but check water properties. PH 7.5, GH 130ppm, KH 80ppm, Ammonia 4ppm, Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 0ppm.

Day 15: 30% water change (just for practice, and I was bored). Water properties: PH 7.2, GH 130ppm, KH 80ppm, Ammonia 2ppm, Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 0ppm. Added more ammonia now back to 4ppm. De-Chlorinated water. Added recommended API Zyme for 20/g tank.

Day 16-20: PH 7.5, GH 130ppm, KH 80ppm, Ammonia 4ppm, Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 0ppm. No changes. Driftwood has white fuzzies growing on it.

Day 20: Annoyed so I added recommended Cycle for 20/g tank. PH 7.5, GH 130ppm, KH 80ppm, Ammonia 4ppm, Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 0ppm. No changes.

Day 21-25: No changes: PH 7.5, GH 130ppm, KH 80ppm, Ammonia 4ppm, Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 0ppm. Got annoyed dump whole bottle of Zyme in tank as well as the rest of Cycle.

Day:25-28 NO CHANGES - PH 7.5, GH 130ppm, KH 80ppm, Ammonia 4ppm, Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 0ppm.

Day 29: Bought two Java Fern plants and two Amazon Sword plants. Added API Plant fertilizer/ with iron. No changes: PH 7.5, GH 130ppm, KH 80ppm, Ammonia 4ppm, Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 0ppm. Driftwood still has white fuzzies growing on it.

Today is day 30: Tonight I will check readings with new plants.

Water is slightly tea color from driftwood, but it didn't lower the PH. I assume ammonia is keeping it at 7.5. In 30 days I'm not getting any Nitrite or Nitrate readings, and the Ammonia has not budged from 4ppm. Tap water must have some other chemical other than chlorine to kill bacteria. I don't know.


Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Day 1: Added water let sit with filter running (no media). Water properties same as tap. De-Chlorinated water.

This is what concerns me.

If there is not filter media in you filter, then where are you beneficial bacteria going to grow?

The bacteria that process ammonia and nitrite, live in the water, yes, but they do not colonize/process ammonia or nitrite while in their free swimming state as much, if at all, as they would if they were attatched to something.

So, you need to add filter media to the filter ASAP! This is where you bacteria will colonize and begin the cycling process.

Also, cycle and stress Lyme are gimmicks and really do nothing at all.

-FHM

 

[ebross67]

Thanks for the comment fatheadminow,

I was told by the LFS not to put in the carbon filter, because you change them monthly. They told me the bacteria will grow on everything in the tank (glass, decorations, gravel, and so-on). I have a power filter with no bio-wheel. In the manual it says 3 level filtration, but I don't know how it can. It must be referring to the carbon media as a bio-media as well. I was thinking on putting lava rock in the tank. The power filter compartments are somewhat small to fit anything but the carbon media. Do I need to get a filter with a bio-wheel? I will put in the carbon filter tonight.

Thanks for your help.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Thanks for the comment fatheadminow,

I was told by the LFS not to put in the carbon filter, because you change them monthly. They told me the bacteria will grow on everything in the tank (glass, decorations, gravel, and so-on). I have a power filter with no bio-wheel. In the manual it says 3 level filtration, but I don't know how it can. It must be referring to the carbon media as a bio-media as well. I was thinking on putting lava rock in the tank. The power filter compartments are somewhat small to fit anything but the carbon media. Do I need to get a filter with a bio-wheel? I will put in the carbon filter tonight.

Thanks for your help.

99% of the bacteria are goring to colonize in the filer, while the other 1 % colonize on the substrate/decor/glass.

Needless to say, these 'other' 1% are really insignificant compared to what colonizes in the filter. In other words, if you rely on these 1% to cycle a tank, the tank will never cycle because there will never be enough bacteria to process all of the ammonia.

You do not need to add carbon to your filer, I do not run it all. The activated carbon really only works fro about 3 days, after which it is all used up and needs to be replaced.

The 3 steps of a filter usually consist of:

1. Mechanical filtration (Sponge/foam insert)

2. Chemical filtration (Activated Carbon)

3. Biological filtration (Beneficial Bacteria)

The bio-wheel is going to be the 3rd step, which is where most of the 99% of the bacteria are going to grow in your filter.

Sorry to say, but you really have everything else going for you in your tank, but no "home" for the bacteria to grow.

The reason why your tank is not cycling, is because of the simple fact you have not provided an adequate home for the bacteria to colonize, which would be your bio-wheel.

You need to add your bio-wheel back ASAP!

-FHM

 

[ebross67]

It doesn't have a bio-wheel. I was asking if I should by a filter that does like the Marineland brand. The only filter media that my power filter came with is the carbon replaceable filter. It is recommended to replace this filter every month. It doesn't make a lot of sense to grow it on this if you throw it a way every month. I have read that the month changing cycle is a gimmick made up by the LFS to make money. I heard most people just rinse off the filter in old tank water. Your right about the carbon being useless after 3 days. I'll give my tank another week with the filter media in and see if it makes a difference. Can I replace the filter media with something else like house sponge or something? Thanks again.

 

[fatheadminnow]

It doesn't have a bio-wheel. I was asking if I should by a filter that does like the Marineland brand. The only filter media that my power filter came with is the carbon replaceable filter. It is recommended to replace this filter every month. It doesn't make a lot of sense to grow it on this if you throw it a way every month. I have read that the month changing cycle is a gimmick made up by the LFS to make money. I heard most people just rinse off the filter in old tank water. Your right about the carbon being useless after 3 days. I'll give my tank another week with the filter media in and see if it makes a difference. Can I replace the filter media with something else like house sponge or something? Thanks again.

Yes, go ahead a place some foam/sponge media in your filter right now.

What type of filter do you have?

And, just to make this clear, you do not have any type of filer media in the tank at all right now?

Throwing away you filter media once a month or so is a gimmick. Because like you stated, that is where the bacteria grow, and you would be throwing all that away.

So, instead, just rinse your filer media off in tank water. You do not need toe replace you filter media unless it is physically falling apart.

-FHM

 

[ebross67]

It depends on what you consider filter media. Like I said in an earlier post - the substrate acts as a filter media. If your are specifically talking about the Power Filter that hangs on the back, no. My filter is a Top Fin Power Filter 20 (Pet Smart brand). It says 3 way filtration, but there's no way. It has enough room for one clip-in filter bag made specifically for Top Fin Filters. I think their over-exaggerating the claims of multiple filtration.

 

[fatheadminnow]

It depends on what you consider filter media. Like I said in an earlier post - the substrate acts as a filter media. If your are specifically talking about the Power Filter that hangs on the back, no. My filter is a Top Fin Power Filter 20 (Pet Smart brand). It says 3 way filtration, but there's no way. It has enough room for one clip-in filter bag made specifically for Top Fin Filters. I think their over-exaggerating the claims of multiple filtration.

Substrate is, yes, a form of a filter, but there is less than 1% of bacteria there in comparison to a filter.

No matter what, you will most likely never colonize enough bacteria on your substrate to cycle your tank. Why? Because there is not enough water flow of the substrate. On average, a filer has a turn over rate of 5 times in one hour, minimum. Your substrate has a 0 turn over rate. Simple, the bacteria on the substrate, in the little amount there is, will never be able to process all of the ammonia.

I am sorry, but the people at your LFS did not give you the right information.

What do you think a filter is used for if you think the bacteria grow else where? The bacteria grow in the filter, that is where 99% of them will grow, and that is really the only way to cycle a tank, by having the adequate media within the filter so the bacteria can colonize on it.

Also, the clip-in filter has a screen outside which is your mechanical filtration, and this also serves as a home for your bacteria. And within the clip-in filter is where the activated carbon is. That is a 3-stage!

You need to put that clip in filter, some ceramics/foam/sponge insert or something into your filter ASAP. All the water form your tank goes through that filter at least 5 times in one hour, and that is where the bacteria are going to grow the most, not on the substrate or decor or glass walls!

I am sorry, but your tank is not going to cycle unless you do what I mention above. Plus your ammonia level has not dropped in over 30 days, and this is why. You don't have a place for you to colonize enough bacteria. This is what your filter is used for!

-FHM

 

[ebross67]

Thank you for all your help FHM - I put the filter clip in and we'll wait and see. I'm a little discouraged because what do I do when it deteriorates? Do I have to cycle the tank again or should I run two filters on the tank and turn on the second 3 weeks before the old one runs out to build a new bacteria colony? Thanks again.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Thank you for all your help FHM - I put the filter clip in and we'll wait and see. I'm a little discouraged because what do I do when it deteriorates? Do I have to cycle the tank again or should I run two filters on the tank and turn on the second 3 weeks before the old one runs out to build a new bacteria colony? Thanks again.

Don't worry about the carbon, which is inside the pad thingy.

The outside of the pad, where the mesh/foam stuff is, that is where you bacteria are going to colonize.

You really should not have much problem with the pad falling apart. All you need to do is clean the pad off in tank water about once a month.

Get a bucket of tank water, and place the pad in there. Swish it around a bit to get any debris and stuff off.

Here is a video I made on how to clean filter media.

Sorry about the lighting, it is not the best, lol...



-FHM

 

[ebross67]

Thanks again FHM -

Day 30 - put back filter media in Top Fin Power Filter.

Day 31 - 48hrs with new plants and they look good. Checked water properties at 7:30 am: GH 120, KH 80, PH 7.5, Ammonia 2ppm, Nitrites 0ppm, Nitrates 0ppm. The ammonia wet down only because I added more water to the tank. When I set it up it was only 3/4 full. I will wait and see what happens to the ammonia at the current level. I added full amount of water because plants were sticking out of the top.

I guess this will be a 60 day cycle because of the filter issue. My 4 year old is getting impatient, and so is his dad. I asked him if the tank looked good with the new plants and he said - no, it just doesn't look right without fish. He is SO right.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Glad to see you put the media in!

You are using a water conditioner as well, right? Just checking.

You should see the ammonia start dropping now within a week.

Here is a fishless thread I just started a little while ago on my ten gallon tank.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=306731&hl=

-FHM

 

[ebross67]

Something I noticed on my 20/g tank - the front is bowing about 1/16in. Do you think the glass is in danger of breaking or is this normal with an all glass tank? More info - the tank is oh so slightly leaning forward. My basement floor is not perfectly level. I will attempt to lift up the tank tonight and level it. I should of checked it before I put water in it, but it didn't seem that off at first.

 

[fatheadminnow]

If you try to move the tank with water in it, you are running an extremely high risk of damaging the tank.

If you do try to move the tank, the best is to get all water.decor out, but if you can't do that, I guess just get as much water out as you can.

The 1/16 inch is okay/normal.

-FHM

 

[ebross67]

I watched your video FHM. It was a little dark and hard to make out. What type of filter are you using and what are all those filter medias you're removing? I think I counted four. Do you have two filtration devices running on your tank?