New To Cichlids

[Mollygirls]

Hello everyone,

My 7 year old son wanted his own fishtank and he got to decide which fish he wanted in it and low and behold here I am! My hubby has oscars, I have livebearers and my older boy has tetra's.. So these guys are quite new to us. I have been searching around the site here for info and thankfully have realized that these fish are not crazy from the shaking adn flashing! Scared me half to death when I first saw it but read here that it was normal.. Phew!

Unfourtunatly the pleco I bought from the LFS had Ich so now we are in the process of treating for it. One blue cichlid has it along with the pleco.. I am hoping to prevent the rest from getting it by catching it early.

I do have a few questions..

We currently have an albino one, a yellow lab (I think that is what it is called), 2 Kribs and 2 blue Demasoni. So my first question is should I get another yellow lab and another albino so they each have a "friend" so to say..

Another question is the blue guy with ich is staying near the heater a lot.. Is this normal? He(she) does come down to visit the others but he(she) is normally hanging out up there.. Any guesses as to why?

Oh my tank is a 30 gallon with a cave, rocks with hiding places in them and a hollow tree root thing that they can go into.. If this info helps..

Thanks

 

[Mollygirls]

I cant keep 2? Really?? They are the most docile fish in the tank right now.. The yellow one is a #### and trying to tease the rest of them and gets chased out of places.. He (she) doesnt seem to know that everyone has thier own space.. At least from what I witnessed.. I will look into that for sure.. Perhaps I can find another way to keep him.. I have 6 tanks up and running so I am sure we can find room somewhere safe...

Thanks..

 

[dthoffsett]

Because of their extremely high conspecific aggression (aggression towards their own species and similar looking ones) P.demasoni should be kept in groups of 12+ or as a single specimen. While they are getting along now that will change once they reach sexual maturity, which happens very quickly with dems.

I'm going to copy some basic equipment needs that I posted in another topic (mostly because I'm too lazy to type them again).

If you are interested in the brightly colored cichlids, I'm guessing you would prefer mbuna (means rock-dwelling), one of 3 groups of cichlids from Lake Malawi, Africa.

There is a lot of research needed to successfully keep them, they aren't difficult in terms of feeding or water quality, but rather grouping species that are unlikely to destroy each other. They are quite aggressive and temperaments can range from mildly aggressive to unbelievably psychotic. And because of their temperament and preference of hard alkaline water, mbuna should only be kept with other mbuna with the exception of some catfish.

For the basic requirements:

Tank: Most mbuna species can be kept in a minimum 4ft tank, they are mostly bottom dwellers and while they generally average around 5 inches or less, they are very territorial and need plenty of space. A couple of species get a bit larger than average, notably Pseudotropheus acei & Pseudotropheus crabro which both reach around 7-8 inches and should really be kept in a 6ft tank.

Filtration: As a couple of people have said you will need higher than average filtration. Mbuna should be overstocked to cut down on aggression, this allows sub-dominate or weaker fish to get "lost in the crowd" thus confusing the dominate fish (usually a male) who will randomly chase anyone near by. So, as a minimum you'll need a total tank turn over of 8-10 times. This can be achieved with a very large or multiple filters (should be the bulk of your turn over) and pumps/powerheads. You can go much higher with your turn over as well as long as none of the fish are getting blown around the tank. For example, I'll be setting up a new tank with a total turn over of around 25-30 times per hour!

Substrate: Mbuna thrive in high PH (7.8+) and hard water, so substrates that will buffer your water are preferred, that is unless your tap water can be considered liquid rock. Mbuna love sand, they'll happily dig in it all day long and it's great fun to watch; for their buffering ability, aragonite or coral sand are tops. You can find either in your LFS marine section, it does cost a bit more than play sand, but it's worth it.

Decor: As I said above, mbuna means rock-dwelling and that's exactly what they are. In the wild they live, eat and breed in rock piles, so your tank will need lots of rocks or other decor that will allow them to stake out territories. To help cut down on fights try to have multiple caves/crevices for each fish. For some inspiration check here: [URL="http/"http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=169788""]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=169788[/URL]

Compatibility: Here's where it gets tricky, it's always important to research any fish before you buy it, but it's doubly so with mbuna. The biggest problem new keepers have is putting together incompatible species in the wrong ratios. The vast majority of species should be kept in ratios of 1 male for every 3 females. There are some exceptions of course, Labidochromis caeruleus & Pseudotropheus acei are both mild enough that they can generally be kept with multiple males. On the other hand, those species with higher aggression levels should be kept with only 1 male per tank and 4-5 females (per species). And then there are some species that shouldn't be sold at all as they are notorious for killing their tankmates regardless of how carefully you stock it. Melanochromis auratus & Melanochromis chipokae should be avoided at all costs, in fact I don't recommend any of the Melanochromis species for beginner mbuna keepers. Metriaclima lombardoi, commonly called Kennyi, are also very aggressive though they can be kept in larger tanks with other aggressive species. And then there's Pseudotropheus demasoni, one of my personal favorites, they are the biggest exception to the 1m/3f ratio. They have such high conspecific aggression (aggressive towards their own species and those similar looking) that they should be kept singly or in groups of 12 or more. That said, they do ignore any species that doesn't look similar so they're still a good choice.

Have I overwhelmed you yet?

You will notice they I'm using scientific names, this is really important with mbuna, there are no real common names for them like say a neon tetra, each LFS can and will call them whatever they want and so when identifying them you should always use their proper name. Another thing that should be avoided is picking any fish from a Mixed African Tank, these often contain hybrids which should be avoided for two reasons. 1 there are so many hybrids on the market now that it is becoming difficult to find pure strains and 2 you don't know who the parents are, the cute little fishy you pick out could turn out to be a killing machine.

I generally recommend to new keepers to go to their LFS and write down all the names of the fish they like the look of, then research them here or here and then post on here for help with compatibility. Grouping mbuna is just as much an art as it is a science, research and experience will tell you what will work and what won't which is why asking other keepers is so important. There are a couple of guidelines to follow though, avoid keeping species that all look alike and try to keep those with similar temperaments.

Further Reading: I highly recommend reading the following, as I said research is key to a successful mbuna tank or any tank for that matter.
The Mbuna Aquarium
Feeding Mbuna
African Cichlids, multiple articles

Well, if you've gotten through all that and still have questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer. -Dawn

As I said above a 4-ft (generally 55gal) tank is minimum to keep mbuna (P.demasoni are the exception if kept in a species only tank, IMO 40gal would be the minimum for them), so unfortunately your son's 30gal is unsuitable for them. So my suggestion (after treating them of course) would be to either upgrade the tank or rehome them and keep suitable species for his tank size. There are quite a few Lake Tanganikya species that would work in there.

 

[Mollygirls]

Wow.. that info is amazing.. Thank you so much.. Goes to show that research is useful before buying fish.. I just assumed that the 30 gallon would be fine as my girlfriend has a 30 gallon with about 10 cichlids in it.. 4 full grown and thier offspring.. She has a yellow lab and a Blue demasoni among a few others that I dont remember...

I am going to leave them where they are for now until I am sure the ich is gone. Right now we are having major trouble with it. One of the blue guys is suffering badly with it and the poor pleco is still suffering. The pleco is the one who brought it to the tank as the lfs sold me a pleco with ich.. How nice! I am treating them with super ich cure but it doesnt seem to be helping.. Is there anything else I can do to help these two poor guys?(I think they are guys.. but who knows..LOL)

I have a 125 gallon holding oscars, a 55 gallon community tank (livebearers and such), the 30 gallon with the cichlids and 3 ten gallons. One is a baby tank for my livebearers, one holds my son's betta and the other has my other son's betta in it with some zebra danio's.

I am sure we can sort something out to make everyone happy. My 7 year old might end up with my 55 gallon while I move my community back into the 30 gallon..

I need to sort out the 55 gallon as well due to new fish bringing some kind of disease to it.. sigh..

thanks again for the insight..

 

[dthoffsett]

I am going to leave them where they are for now until I am sure the ich is gone. Right now we are having major trouble with it. One of the blue guys is suffering badly with it and the poor pleco is still suffering. The pleco is the one who brought it to the tank as the lfs sold me a pleco with ich.. How nice! I am treating them with super ich cure but it doesnt seem to be helping.. Is there anything else I can do to help these two poor guys?(I think they are guys.. but who knows..LOL)

You can raise the temp to about 80 - 82 and increase the surface movement which should speed up treatment a bit.

 

[Mollygirls]

thank you for the info.. Unfortunatly I woke up this morning to a very sad boy and a dead blue demasoni. I am taking both the blue demasoni and the infected pleco back to the store!! The pleco had ich when I bought it and I didnt notice for a few days.. I have been trying to treat him for almost 2 weeks now and I just cant deal with my 7 year old so upset so before the other fish get infected (or worse then they might already be as none are showing signs other then the blue one that died) I am taking him back as well..

I will then come home and do another water change and continue the treatment to make sure if the ich is left in the tank it will be killed.. sigh..

Thank you for all your help.. I really do appreciate it.. Oh and to let you know the surviving cichlids will be moved into the 55 gallon within the next month or so.. I need to sort out my tropical community first!.. thanks again