New Tank

Amy86

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Hi,

Ive just purchased a 24 Gallon (UK) tank, 75L X 30W X 47D cm

Its my first tank and i kinda dont know where to start :blush:

Im going to attempt a fishless cycle

I would like to have some live plants and wondered what would be the best substrate to use??

And the background pictures you can get, do they go inside the tank or on the outside of the glass?? :blush:

I also have some coral that i found in barbados and bought home with me, its about 10 years old now and i was wondering if it was safe to use in the tank for decoration?? or could it affect water chemistry

sorry to be so dumb, but id rather ask the questions now and get it right for the benefit of the fish :)

Thanks
 

Im going to attempt a fishless cycle


Good start.. i take it you've seen the pinned topic then :good:

I would like to have some live plants and wondered what would be the best substrate to use??

I used First Layer Laterite.. but i'm sure you will have many recommendations

And the background pictures you can get, do they go inside the tank or on the outside of the glass?? :blush:

Mines on the outside of the glass. I think you will find this is the most common approach. I used sticky tape on the edges, some people use double sided sticky tape, others have used oil/vaseline to stick it to the outside of the glass, whilst some have painted it.. ;)


I also have some coral that i found in barbados and bought home with me, its about 10 years old now and i was wondering if it was safe to use in the tank for decoration?? or could it affect water chemistry


Not sure about this one.. Might have to be boiled, not sure if it will raise the PH or something either..

anyway.. good luck, and don't be afraid to fire more questions at everyone..

Squid
 
Thanks Squid,

yep i have done lots or reading on here and found the fishless cycle topic very helpful. once ive got the ammonia im gonna start right away.

:good:
 
This is exactly where I am at the moment. Some of the questions not answered (or at least dont appear to be answered) in any of the beginners tips and hints here are:

When adding water to the new tank for the first time do you treat the water for chlorine/ chloramine before or after it is in the tank and will these solutions damage the filter media? Following on from this, when you do a water change do you add the chlorine containing tap water and then treat for chlorine or do you treat the water before addition to the established tank?

My Juwel Rio 180 has a light box and both the blue and white lights come on at the same time. I expected there to be a switch that gave the option to choose one over the other, blue for night time and both for daylight. What do I do?

Also when I have to do a water change, do I use a bucket or is there an easier and possibly cleaner option?

I am going to do a fishless cycle since I have some pure Ammonium Hydroxide (I know I know...I'm a lucky bugger to have it!!) ...wish me luck :)

O this is my first post!! :) Hello to everyone!!
 
Good luck to both of you with fishless cycling your new tanks!

Amy:

A common approach is to use laterite under sand or gravel for planted tanks, there are also many different sorts of aquatic soils that can be purchased. For the more hardy plants, you don't really need a special substrate. I've got a tank with just sand and one with a layer of peat, soil and sand mixed together and a layer of sand on top. Both have similar plants, I get better growth in the tank with soil especially from heavy root feeders, the same plants in the sand only tank get root fertilizer tabs but both grow well enough for a low tech, low budget tank with a focus on fish. The planted forum has tons of information on easy plants, lighting, fertilization and substrates if you want to look into it more.

Anything found on the ground outside somewhere is best boiled before you stick it in a tank. Coral however will likely raise the pH in your tank, you'll want to avoid it. If you find any rocks or purchase some gravel at a hardware store, test it with vinegar first to see if you get a reaction. If you do, don't use it in your tank as it will raise the pH. Shells should also be avoided.

scorphonic:

When adding water to the tank for the first time it doesn't matter if you get the chlorine/chloramines in your filter, these are only dangerous to bacteria and fish and you won't have any to kill when filling up your tank for the first time. The easiest way is to put in your substrate and arrange your decorations, then fill up with water and treat the tank once it's full. When you do water changes, there are two schools of thought. The safest way is to treat the water before you add it to the tank, I'd definitely do this with a new tank. Once you've had a mature tank running well for months, many people will just dump the chemicals into the tank and fill up the tank with water. I've done this for years without any harm to my fish or filter, it's much easier to do with larger tanks as you can drag in a garden hose and fill them up from that. If you've got a small tank or a large >30% water change, it would be best to treat the water first though.

You can get yourself some buckets for use only with your fishtank and a syphon of a suitable size for cleaning, or you might try a Python cleaning system. I've personally never used one, but they will syphon water directly into your sink and allow you to fill from the tap. If you've got plants they love dirty fish water too, I always use it on my orchids and other potted plants, never have to fertilize.

The blue lights you have sound like the actinics used for marine tanks. They really don't have any use in freshwater but they won't hurt anything. Generally if you're going to add moonlights that has to be done seperately, though I'm not terribly familiar with the Juwel tanks.
 
Thanks for the reply tessla, great info there!! :D

One last question also...the pH of my tank has gone from 7 to 8 because I'm using Ammonium Hydroxide as the source of ammonia. Will this pH change effect the growth of the bacteria in the filter and should I start using ammonium chloride instead since this will keep the pH constant?

If a pH of 8 is not right, do you suggest that I do a water change to bring the pH back down to 7 coz my tap water is pH 7.

Thanks for any help!! :)
 
Don't worry about your pH, the spike is normal when cycling. Once you've got your tank cycled and ready to go, the most important thing is a stable pH, assuming you aren't planning on keeping fish that are picky about their pH (most community fish aren't). Any large swing in pH over a short period of time will be much more harmful to fish than keeping your tank a bit on the acidic or alkaline side.

Sounds like you have wonderful tap water for fishkeeping, but it may be lacking in buffers to keep the pH stable, especially if it has gone as high as 8 from 7. Any idea what the KH (carbonate hardness/buffering capacity) and GH (general hardness) are for your tap water?
 
No I haven't a clue about the hardness of the tap water...still have to buy the kits for that. Is hardness that important for the community fish. I think our water is hard alright...it sure isn't soft water thats for sure!!

I got some Tetra Safe Start today from a very good pet store up the dublin mountains in Ireland...they use it all the time and they put fish into new tanks almost immediately and the fish are always fine. They set up a marine tank yesterday and have fish in it today...happy as can be!! I have put in 150mls of it so hopefully it will be a 24 hour cycling process!! I'll be using ammonium chloride from now on...the ammonium hydroxide makes the pH sky rocket. Its about pH8 - 8.1.
 
If you've got hard tap water you're likely fine, just keep an eye out for pH swings once you get out of cycling with fish in your tank.

The current ammonia you're using is fine, since it's basic, your pH swings are perfectly normal. Even in cycling with fish the pH will change, it will go back to normal once your tank is cycled with fish in it. I've heard good things about Biospira on this forum, though many similar instant cycling products don't work well, if at all. You'll just have to try it and find out, it won't hurt anything. You'll still need some time for your filter to build up a bacteria colony, so don't get in too much of a hurry. Are you absolutely sure that the store isn't using filter media from mature tanks to set up their new ones? I'd be a bit worried if they're depending on an instant cycling product alone to set up new tanks. :crazy:
 
From what he told me today it seemed that this chemical is all they used to condition the water for new fish. (I'm sure they use marine water from already established tanks too coz they have massive massive tanks and can afford to fill a few others!!) I had my doubts about it at first but because they are so highly recommended here in Ireland (and they are pretty busy every day!!) I figured that he wasn't going to give me this information and allow me to go off and put loads of fish into an uncycled tank. It seems that this product, which was released in Germany recently has flown off the shelf from all the successes it has had. It is not an instant cycling product from what I can gather but it does allow full stocking of fish into an uncycled tank and it acts as a buffer for the ammonia and Nitrites by keeping them pretty low throughout the cycle.

I'm giving it a try with a fishless cycle...if it works like it should the tank should cycle pretty soon.

Thank you for the information about the pH. Just another question though...if its at a pH of 8 now how does it just reduce to 7 when the cycle is finished? even though the ammonia will be metabolised by the bacteria the hydroxide ions will persist wont they? I find this a bit confusing, even with my science degree!! (haha...I really should know the answers to my own questions!!! :))
 
If the product you're using locks up ammonia and nitrites to keep them low througout the cycle, you're likely going to slow down your cycle rather than speed it up. (Lots of people still cycle with fish and it would be useful added to a new tank using mature filter media to avoid spikes.) The only thing that will speed up your cycle is the addition of nitrifying bacteria from a mature filter or another source. I'd be very careful as locking products also have a tendency to foul up your test readings.

However from everything I've read about Tetra Safe Start, it claims to contain nitrifying bacteria, which has been proven successful in other products like BioSpira though they can be easily damaged from heat during certain months of the year. You'll still need some time for the bacteria to colonize your filter, but adding them from a bottle is quite a bit faster than waiting for them to show up from the air/tap water. Bringing a tank up to full stocking after adding one of these products is still a bad idea, go with gradual additions to give your filter time to cope.

Your pH won't "just" reduce to 7 when the cycle is finished, but when you do your large water change at the end of your cycle you'll be adding water with a lower pH. Through regular water changes after that, your pH should continue to get closer to 7. Sorry, I wasn't terribly clear on that before.
 
Ah...thanks for that again tessla...that certainly makes sense to me now.

I doubt very much if myself or my dad will put too many fish in at the start...I think it would be nice to add a different one each week for a bit of variability!! I'm running two filters now, an internal and an external. Can the internal filter be removed now or is it best to keep the two on? The external filter is more than capable of cleaning the water.
 
If you want to you can remove the internal filter but there's no harm in keeping them both running. No such thing as too much filtration! If the external filter is a new addition, you've likely got most of your bacteria buildup in the internal filter. In that case, don't remove the internal filter until you've had your tank up and running with fish for a few months.

Careful with your fish stocking there, adding a different fish each week will likely lead you to trouble. A better plan would be to research the types of fish suited to your tank and what tank mates they prefer. Many fish prefer to be kept alone, and many others prefer to be kept in groups of their own kind. Make sure you aren't getting fish that grow much too large for your tank (plenty of commonly sold juvenile fish get huge and require over a hundred gallons), require special water paramaters (discus spring to mind) or will eat anything else that you put in your tank.
 
If you have two filters, and don't mind the look of it, keep them both. As long as they're not creating a whirlpool in the tank, you can't have too much filtration.

Before adding fish, be sure to research their requirements. Many fish stores give out "misleading" information. One example of misleading information I just saw in my most recent trip to the LFS was that tetras are great for unheated bowls (they aren't, they're schooling fish that like warmer water).
 
The internal filter in the Rio180 takes up quite a bit of space in the tank which could be used for the fish!!

Tessla, your right about the internal one having more bacteria since it has been set up for a week now while the external one is on for about 24 hours at this stage. I'll leave it until the tank has cycled and then I'll transfer the internal biological filters to the external filter and get the internal filter unit out of the tank. It really does take up alot of space in there!!
 

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