New Tank, New Owners.

[nufish]

Hello this is my first post so please bear with me.

I like apparently most new fish owners jumped in completely blind. My son who is 2 LOVES fish. So my wife and I decided that we,
would get him a few fish. So we went to out LFS and picked some out. Talked to the owner. They told me that we only needed to CYCLE the tank for 12 to 24 hours. This was 2 days ago. We bought 4 Painted Glass Fish. (<-- I have since discovered how these are treated, and will not buy anymore. Just do the best we can for the ones we have now. ) After 24 hours of CYCLING we bought 5 more fish. We now have,

4 Painted Glass
1 Male Beta
1 Spotted Catfish
&
3 Guppies
All recommended by the LFS. Now I have started reading more about Cycles, and it looks like we have gone about this all wrong. I measured the Ph in the tank it was 7. The Ammonia was .25PPM, and the Nitrate was PPM. We don't have a Nitrate Test kit yet, will be getting on in the morning. Out tank is a 10gallon, and is kept at 78degrees F.

So this is my plan to try to keep my sons fish alive and happy, in turn keeping him and his mother happy too.

1. Do daily 10-15% water changes until Ammonia and Nitrite have gone to 0 or at least unreadable with my home test kit.
2. Add a Oxygen Stone to help with the Cycling Pross.
3. Test water everyday before doing the Water Change.

I know most of you reading this will think "Here we go again." But I'm going to do the best I can to remedy this problem. If there are any other suggestions please let me know. I have been reading "Beginner Help" Post most all day today. I have a good understanding of the Nitrogen Cycle, and understand that we are going at this backwardly. Thanks in advance for all help.

Brian

 

[Viettxboii]

at leasst your doing a good job for a starter, does this tank have a filter?
As most hte bateria required for cylcing requires a filter...

 

[rdd1952]

First, hello and welcome to the forum.

At least you have a plan and realize that the advise you got was wrong. It's unreal that almost every fish store does it though. So few have any knowledgeable employees, even the true fish stores. One thing I would suggest is to see if the store would let you return any of the fish. Not only would that help with the cycling as it is very difficult to cycle with that many fish but also because you have a compatibility issue with the betta and guppies. The betta will eventually kill the guppies as he will view their fancy tails as another betta. If that isn't any option, I would look into getting a separate 2 or 2.5 gallon tank for the betta. The spotted catfish will also probably need a larger tank as they grow to about 6".

The pH isn't terribly important except that ammonia is more toxic at higher pH levels so it's good that you know what it is but don't worry about trying to change it either up or down. As you mentioned, you will need to keep up with water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite as low as possible. For the fish load you have, a single 10 to 15 percent change a day probably won't be enough. You will probably have to do larger changes or more than 1. You main goal is to keep ammonia and nitrite both below .25 ppm if at all possible. Don't worry about the nitrate for the time being. Unless you have nitrate in your tap water, it definitely won't get high enough to be any kind of issue while you are cycling. Testing it will let you know that the tank is cycling though. As soon as you start getting a nitrate reading you know that you have bacteria processing both ammonia and nitrite and that you are getting close to being cycled.

One other thing that I'm sure you know is that if you have female guppies, you will have fry. A new batch from each female about every 28 days. You will have to decide what you wantto do with them. Move them to another tank to grow out (then you will also need another tank to put them in when they're grown) or leave them in the tank and let nature take it's course (the other fish will eat them). Even if you go with option 2, you will possibly still have some fry survive, especially if there are plenty of hiding places.

 

[nufish]

at leasst your doing a good job for a starter, does this tank have a filter?

Yes I have a Hang Back Filter. Terta I think is the name brand

The spotted catfish will also probably need a larger tank as they grow to about 6".

The pH isn't terribly important except that ammonia is more toxic at higher pH levels so it's good that you know what it is but don't worry about trying to change it either up or down. As you mentioned, you will need to keep up with water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite as low as possible. For the fish load you have, a single 10 to 15 percent change a day probably won't be enough. You will probably have to do larger changes or more than 1. You main goal is to keep ammonia and nitrite both below .25 ppm if at all possible. Don't worry about the nitrate for the time being. Unless you have nitrate in your tap water, it definitely won't get high enough to be any kind of issue while you are cycling. Testing it will let you know that the tank is cycling though. As soon as you start getting a nitrate reading you know that you have bacteria processing both ammonia and nitrite and that you are getting close to being cycled.

One other thing that I'm sure you know is that if you have female guppies, you will have fry.

Well credit the LFS for another one. They said the Spotted Catfish would be 3-4 inches. Well I will keep him and get another tank later, as my wife already has plans for a tank in the living room.

On the pH. I tested it at the begining of this tank to see what it was straigh tfrom the tap. So I have a good base to go on to tell if it is going to high or to low.

Guppies- We have no females. I did at least know better than that. I have read mixed reviews on the Beta and Guppies. Some say that they have had problems some say they have never had a problem. Might just take the Beta to work with me. That will knock down the ammonia output a little too.
Win/Win I guess.

About the larger Water Changes. Is it safe to do 40-50% Changes? I know that I will have to De-Chlorinate the new water and get it to the same temp as in the tank before putting it in the tank. Also what about vaccuming the gravel? Good idea or bad? At this point I think I should leave it alone for awhile.

Guys and gals thanks again for your help with this. One of these days I will be able to help someone in the same shape I'm in.

 

[vinylman]

You don't have to be TOO accurate with the temperature of the fresh water. Just judge by hand, close is close enough. At least now you know (albeit the hard way) that very few people who work in LFS know much about what they're actually selling. It seems strange to me that if someone sells you something in any other shop, you have some kind of comeback if you're given wrong or misleading info. With fish, that doesn't seem to matter for some reason. BTW, if you go back and they start the old ''Oh yes, you'll need a bottle of this, and this, and this'' ignore them. All you'll ever need to put in your tank is fresh, dechlorinated water. It's always handy to have a bottle of Protozin in for any Whitespot brought on by stress or brought into the tank by new additions, but that's about it. Sorry you've had a lousy start, but once you're sorted you'll soon realise that it's very easy to keep a clean, healthy, happy tank. Please don't forget to read the threads in the newbies section; they'll tell you everything you'll need to know. If you've any questions about anything, ask away. Good luck.

 

[rdd1952]

The maximum length on th catfish is 5 to 6 inches but in an aquarium, 3 to 4 may be about it. It will take a while for him to grow that much too so it isn't like you have to rush out and get a bigger tank tomorrow.

Bettas have different temperments and personalities. Some do fine with guppies and other fish, others don't. You may just have to wait and see. Just keep an eye on him for now. The one down side to it is that sometimes it happens over night. Everything is fine until you get up the next morning and he has wiped them all out.

You can safely do 40 to 50 percent water changes. As mentioned, just try to get the water temp close by feel. If you happen to have a digital thermometer, you can check it and be more accurate if you want. Some people make water changes though with the fresh water 10 to 20 degrees colder than the tank water and don't have any problems. Go ahead and do the gravel vacs. There isn't any beneficial bacteria to speak of in the gravel so you won't harm the cycling process. The waste you get ot each time with the gravel vac would more than make up for any minute amount of bacteria that may be there.

 

[nufish]

OK So I did my first water change today. Before starting we checked the Ammonia, it was at .25ppm,maybe a little more.
We did a 40% water change. After putting new water in we checked it again. It was below .25ppm. Nitrite was also tested but being new to the game I read it wrong. So will try again on tomorrows Water Change. I bought a Python Gravel Vac. that things works very nicely. But that has been cover ALOT in previous Threads. One thing I have noticed to day is that our Guppies, well on of them, is a little aggressive toward our Glass Fish. We can't tell if it is bitting them or what. Is this normal?

Thanks again for all the help. I will keep posted on what is happing with our aquarium

 

[rdd1952]

Sometimes when you have all males they will get a little nippy. As for the nitrite, it's probably a little early to have any yet. It usually takes 3 to 5 days for it to show up. It also takes longer for it to cycle through too. I have a Python too but only use it for refilling the tank as it seems to waste too much water during the removal phase. I just use an old gravel vac to remove the water in buckets.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

It will take a little while for Nitrites to start showing up...about 1-3 weeks, and then another few weeks for nitrAtes. Everyones cycle time is different however. Another tip on keeping ammonia levels down is feed only once per day at most and feed very lightly. Less food = less waste.

Some aggression between species (and amongst their own species) does happen, but if there are signs that injury may occur, or that the glass fish is being harrassed you may want to separate/remove/return the offender.

 

[nufish]

I have a Python too but only use it for refilling the tank as it seems to waste too much water during the removal phase. I just use an old gravel vac to remove the water in buckets.

On this refill I use a bucket because was not sure about the dechlorination of the water in the tank. But have read that you can add the de-chlorination to the tank then add water from tap. Adjusting the water temp with the faucet. I will try this next time.

 

[rdd1952]

I actually squirt (I never measure it) some dechlor in the tank about half way through the refilling process and then some more when I'm finished. I've never had any problems. I mix hot and cold water when I refill the tank and just let the hot run about 30 seconds to a minute before I start filling just incase there are any impurities in the lines. While I'm waiting on that, I run a little in a small cup and stick a digital thermometer in to get the temp close to the tank temp. Of course, during the summer here, the water straight from the cold tap is about 82 degrees so no hot water needed.

 

[starrynightxxi]

i add dechlorinator to the tank rather than little bits to each bucket i haul over. Also, with a python, it would be impossible to add the dechlorinator in any other way.

For cycling with fish, it's always taken my tanks about a month to fully cycle as long as they are not overstocked. I've never done a fishless cycle so I don't know how long they take.

As it's summer, I generally just put cold water without fussing about temperature. It has never affected the tank any. In winter when the tap is cold, I'll mix, though.

Out of curiousity, do you have, or can you get, any pictures of this "spotted catfish"? I can think of a lot of different fish that might fall into that category which can reach all sorts of sizes.

 

[rdd1952]

I assumed it was a spotted raphael catfish but you're right it could be others.

 

[Lynda B]

Hello and welcome to the wonderful world of fishkeeping.

Bummer that you were given a lot of bad advice from your lfs, but great that you are determined to do your best with your current situation. You've been given lots of great advice. All you can do now is hope for the best. I have a feeling you'll do fine.

And, I wanted to comment that, it might have just been coincidence, but I firmly believe that my additional aeration, via an air stone, was why my tank cycled as beautifully (with fish) as it did. My husband started his tank the same time I did but his took about 2 weeks longer and he had no air stone. 8)

 

[nufish]

B)-->QUOTE(Lynda B @ Jul 17 2007, 04:57 AM) [snapback]1693794[/snapback]
Hello and welcome to the wonderful world of fishkeeping.

And, I wanted to comment that, it might have just been coincidence, but I firmly believe that my additional aeration, via an air stone, was why my tank cycled as beautifully (with fish) as it did. My husband started his tank the same time I did but his took about 2 weeks longer and he had no air stone. 8)[/quote]

I have added a Air Stone to the tank. I did it Sunday night, which would be two days ago now. I had read that they help. And IMHO the bubbles look very nice too. I will be doing today's water change in a few hours. I will test before and test after. Will put the results in this post too. Also will try to get a pic of my catfish. Its hard in the day, he just hides in his cave. I think the best part about gathering information (CORRECT INFORMATION), is when you gather information put it to use and it works. Example --> I had read before we got the Catfish that they like to stay in close tight places during the day and they came out at night. So I made sure I bough a cave for him. And BAMM he uses the cave in that day, when we go to bed I turn out the tank light, watch them for a few minutes, then the Catfish comes out. Good information is an amazing thing. Thanks again to everyone. This forum has great people on it.